July FSO

[BFOOT1]

http://ahevents.net/index.php/fso-current-next-event

Information can be found here folks. We will be representing the German summer offensive of 1942.

Frames will run July 7, 14, & 21.

Go ahead and start updating those preferences 

[Krusty]

So, I have a few comments. I'm looking at this academically and based on past game experiences, and please don't take it as an attack on whomever set the event up but sometimes you gotta call things out in a polite way to see changes in the future.


That... uh... doesn't look like a very balanced setup, IMO. The Boston and the Tu-2 (a 1944 plane, by the way) have a top speed that matches a 109F to mid alts. Meanwhile the Tu-2 is nearly 2x as fast as the He-111, and about 100 mph faster than the Ju88. And it has 20mm cannons and can dogfight when needed.

The min-max fighters on the axis side are significantly outperformed by the min-max fighters on the allied side. The no-max fighters are the only area that is close, with a slight edge to axis at high alts only.

And, finally, as a Bf109 fan I have to note: The Bf109E-4 is noted to be placed in to replace the Bf109E-4/b and E-7/b, which were common during this time. However, the main point of these planes during this campaign was second-tier units running jabo attacks. They were not tip of the spear and were not your front line fighters. Why is this a problem? Our Bf109E-4 doesn't have a bomb rack, last I recall. They made it a pure fighter only.


Again, not trying to pick a fight. Trying to start a conversation about some things that need to be considered.

[Schwalbee]

So, I have a few comments. I'm looking at this academically and based on past game experiences, and please don't take it as an attack on whomever set the event up but sometimes you gotta call things out in a polite way to see changes in the future.


That... uh... doesn't look like a very balanced setup, IMO. The Boston and the Tu-2 (a 1944 plane, by the way) have a top speed that matches a 109F to mid alts. Meanwhile the Tu-2 is nearly 2x as fast as the He-111, and about 100 mph faster than the Ju88. And it has 20mm cannons and can dogfight when needed.

The min-max fighters on the axis side are significantly outperformed by the min-max fighters on the allied side. The no-max fighters are the only area that is close, with a slight edge to axis at high alts only.

And, finally, as a Bf109 fan I have to note: The Bf109E-4 is noted to be placed in to replace the Bf109E-4/b and E-7/b, which were common during this time. However, the main point of these planes during this campaign was second-tier units running jabo attacks. They were not tip of the spear and were not your front line fighters. Why is this a problem? Our Bf109E-4 doesn't have a bomb rack, last I recall. They made it a pure fighter only.


Again, not trying to pick a fight. Trying to start a conversation about some things that need to be considered.

+1 I noticed some of these aswell reading through the event page last night.glad someone brought it up


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[oakranger]

Is the 110C correct for the timeline?

[Krusty]

Is the 110C correct for the timeline?

Not really, but we don't have an appropriate version. Closest you can get, I suppose.

[Owlblink]

So, I have a few comments. I'm looking at this academically and based on past game experiences, and please don't take it as an attack on whomever set the event up but sometimes you gotta call things out in a polite way to see changes in the future.


That... uh... doesn't look like a very balanced setup, IMO. The Boston and the Tu-2 (a 1944 plane, by the way) have a top speed that matches a 109F to mid alts. Meanwhile the Tu-2 is nearly 2x as fast as the He-111, and about 100 mph faster than the Ju88. And it has 20mm cannons and can dogfight when needed.

The min-max fighters on the axis side are significantly outperformed by the min-max fighters on the allied side. The no-max fighters are the only area that is close, with a slight edge to axis at high alts only.

And, finally, as a Bf109 fan I have to note: The Bf109E-4 is noted to be placed in to replace the Bf109E-4/b and E-7/b, which were common during this time. However, the main point of these planes during this campaign was second-tier units running jabo attacks. They were not tip of the spear and were not your front line fighters. Why is this a problem? Our Bf109E-4 doesn't have a bomb rack, last I recall. They made it a pure fighter only.


Again, not trying to pick a fight. Trying to start a conversation about some things that need to be considered.

 

I think more consideration and calculations need to be done. Good points and a great attitude  by Krusty!

[Devil 505]

Regarding the 109E, The Romanian air force was equipped with the Emil at this time and operated in the area of this event. Also there were some dedicated Jabo units in the Luftwaffe that still utilized the 109E.

The AH 109E can carry a single 250Kg bomb, but not a droptank.

Also, it provides a lesser opponent for the P-39's and P-40's that they can compete against better.

I would keep the 109E in the design as is.

As for the Tu-2, I completely agree with Krusty. It does not fit the time frame at all, nor does it fall into a balance where it could be a reasonable substitute for another type. It needs to go.

Seems the Soviets were operation the first batches of Lend-Lease B-25C's during the summer of 1942. So this plane better balances against the He111.

[waystin2]

I agree with the Tu-2's being overpowered but the B-25C's are far too neutered defensively.  Give the Allies something in line with the HE's or 88's defensive firepower of a swap is made.

[Devil 505]

The He-111 is every bit the deathtrap the B-25C is. They compliment each other nicely, especially if you make both take the bomb loads that come close to 2000lbs.

[waystin2]

I would still take the HE in a used plane lot over the B-25C, but ya, they both suck to fly.  But that still would leave the Allies with not one but two neutered bombers in the B-25C and the Boston.  Not a good idea.  Some thing better than the B-25C but maybe not as nasty as the TU-2 is in order if there was a swap in my opinion.

[BFOOT1]

The question is what can we fit historically that would match the Ju's and HE's? I'm all for the community's input and making them better events so please keep giving input.

The only other bird we have available for use for the time frame anyhow is the B-26, but that wasn't used by the Russians. I'll check with the CM Team and see what I can replace the Tu-2 with. We have till roughly Saturday to discuss and balance something out fellas.

Fighter wise I truly feel okay about the mins and max's at the moment. Depending on what gets discussed here, there could be some changes. If there are any issues with the allied and axis fighters during Frame one, changes will be made for the rest of the event, as well as the write up.

Thanks for the comments, and let's continue to keep this civil folks 

 
If you have any personal questions or private comments you guys can contact me via pm

[Devil 505]

The question is what can we fit historically that would match the Ju's and HE's? I'm all for the community's input and making them better events so please keep giving input.

The only other bird we have available for use for the time frame anyhow is the B-26, but that wasn't used by the Russians. I'll check with the CM Team and see what I can replace the Tu-2 with. We have till roughly Saturday to discuss and balance something out fellas.

Fighter wise I truly feel okay about the mins and max's at the moment. Depending on what gets discussed here, there could be some changes. If there are any issues with the allied and axis fighters during Frame one, changes will be made for the rest of the event, as well as the write up.

Thanks for the comments, and let's continue to keep this civil folks 

 
If you have any personal questions or private comments you guys can contact me via pm

Bostons and B-25C's are both historically accurate in this theater and period, as well as well balanced with Ju-88's and He-111's. The Boston is already much faster than either German bomber and it also has a reasonable dogfighting capability as a single ship. I honestly recommend making formations mandatory for all bombers. The only advantage the Axis has is in bomb loads and the 20mm defensive guns on the 111, but those can be balanced out easily. 

[BFOOT1]

Bostons and B-25C's are both historically accurate in this theater and period, as well as well balanced with Ju-88's and He-111's. The Boston is already much faster than either German bomber and it also has a reasonable dogfighting capability as a single ship. I honestly recommend making formations mandatory for all bombers. The only advantage the Axis has is in bomb loads and the 20mm defensive guns on the 111, but those can be balanced out easily.

That's what I was thinking as well. All four mentioned above are cannon fodder period, at least when I fly them anyhow.

[branch37]

The P39s are going to get 1 shot at the 88s and they will never catch up.  Same for the 109Es and the Bostons I guess.


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[Devil 505]

The P39s are going to get 1 shot at the 88s and they will never catch up.  Same for the 109Es and the Bostons I guess.

P-39's top speed at 12K is closer to the 109F at that altitude than any other fighter in the setup. From there the P-39 slows and the 109F gains even more speed.

The speed of the 109E and P-40E is very similar across all alts.

But the P-39 and P-40 have a great advantages in diving.