Chess Piece Loyalty, ENY, the Bish Dominance Problem, and a Suggestion

[Electroman]

I flew knights for, i dont know, 7 years or so. was lots of good people. there was a lot of love for the team but also a good amount of hate for the bish and their "not quite ww2" type of gameplay.  With time the knights also left the "ww2" type of gameplay yet kept the hate for bish.  I was at a loss that "strike teams" could be so racist as to ignore the war (not to mention "ww2") just to hate on bish.  I attribute it to lemmings and a terrible leader (hehe, kinda like Hitler and ww2).  With time The Knights ability to play the game my way was lost, I was not alone. It was common knowledge the bish generaly play the game as a team more than others.  As the game became worse and worse on knights there was no choice in my book other than to fight the hate and insanity the knights became, I went bish.  The game has been much funner flying for bish and I believe the numbers show, others think similarly.

<S> Bish!  Death to Knights!

 

 

 

It's been good having you on Bish Nat! You are correct in your assessment of Bish and the "war" mentality. We also tend to evaluate more and see who needs hitting on. If we see Rooks are making a move closer to winning in percentage of base numbers they own...we'll focus on them to slow things up. Or sometimes if we see them having a lot of our bases but need a whack of NIT fields we'll go hit Nits to encourage them to start working them and slow the attack on us.

You see - some of us look at the bigger picture...not just who we hate most (although I do admit some nights a specific country pisses me off and I will target them relentlessly for that evening)

<S> to all but especially to my Bishlandians

[SPKmes]

This all may be true...however...the bish lately have really made me shake my head....instead of try win the war by fighting the third side they have just bullied and decimated the one side...why....because... well the only reason I can fathom is they don't actually want to play the game...seriously....take over 40% of a side and continue to take that same sides bases when the third side you have no bases of....it was/is just disgusting in my mind....That to me said it is about chest thumping....(after they pin one on that is)

I have no issue with players from all sides (well there are a couple ) as I often change and do my thing to the best of my ability...but the mentality of the last little while has really p'd me off... we want more players not less...sure I could have changed to the otherside and helped them...but before I change I look at the way the map sits...and honestly.... the stats I saw would have suggested that bish were going to roll the third side...but no...had I changed sides...they may have and then I would have been stuck on a side with no action again.....
On the other side of things though...I have seen bish with huge numbers but getting nailed by both sides....this then destroys the myth of big numbers as they are actually halved which in some (many) cases means they actually have lower numbers.... but are fighting with what some decree as lesser planes...my personal opinion is bollocks hahaha... (high eny planes are just as dangerous...more so in some cases)

I think it would be refreshing for the big squads to rotate...this however can't and shouldn't be forced but it would be nice....

As always this is my opinion and should be viewed as that.... I see most views as pertinent..but sometimes make me think mmmmmmm

[Shuffler]

I do not care if some folks are not capable of changing sides. Winning maps means nothing too me. Winning at fun is #1, winning at fights is #2, winning at keeping wife ack down is #3.

[1stpar3]

Tongs, i get your point. I do have to say though that this happens alot on all sides periodically. The Bish(my homies) do, it seems, suffer from the hit one camp regardless thing a lot more often. Usually in payback. We get double teamed just as much as every otherside, especially on Fridays when the other countries have numbers,just before FSO. I dont believe it should be taken personal, although I know some that do When the Bish are on their game and playing together, we can roll maps at will. Even with eny at 28,  did it several times just Wed-Fri last week. My squad use to change countries ever month, like the AK's and some others. Numbers just got low in squad and we stuck with the Bish. Still hope to resume the change overs, soon. Alot of the not swapping issues are the simple fact, THAT several certain individuals will cause complete headaches for anyone that is willing to swap sides. It IS NOT the best way to encourage fair gameplay, in my opinion. I hate having to squelch most folk, even though it does work ok. Its when you rotate back that becomes an issue. Its hard to play as a team if a lot of your team mates are squelched because you swapped sides It kind of defeats the purpose 

[Zener]

That's a very valid point too, 1stpar3.  I've seen that kind of stuff go on and I've also seen some of the long-time players put a stop to the bashing over side switching, explaining that X squad or X player simply rotates around the countries on a regular basis.  Makes you wonder what makes 'em take side switching as so automatically bad, as though it was a form of treason?

On the other hand, just recently saw a fellow countryman blow a gasket because players weren't doing this, doing that, basically following his war strategy.  After much blathering on country channel about it, and threats to change sides  he eventually did.  I wonder how well he'll be received back should he decide to change back?

Sometimes you just want to have folks like that take a pill.  It's a game fergoshsakes.  Ya gets killed, up another whatever and just start again.  It is disheartening to get rolled, but every side gets it now and then, so what?  Personally I think skills get honed much better when it really counts, like saving a base at the last possible second where your firing MUST be dead on as opposed to six planes in on a single set of bombers turning them slowly into Swiss cheese flambe.

[Chilli]

I returned after a small absence, and within a very short time what the OP has noted was obvious.  This may seem argumentative or maybe too simplified, but "Win the War" is DONE, OVER WITH, and KAPUT.

There is NO mechanism that will prevent free thinking customers from joining a side with advantage. 

One possible solution,  revamp Melee not to include change in territory ownership.  Troops could change a town allegiance but not the airfield / ground vehicle base.  Success of routinely timed staged missions, could be used to benefit country status instead of territory.  In order to affect the change over of a map, at least 2 cycles of player heavy time zones should be allowed and something quantitative like the # of field strats / buildings damaged / # equipment used / damaged and perks awarded proportionally to all participating chess piece warriors.

Tons of ways to keep the players engaged by tying object / vehicle / plane destruction to rank, hierarchy, equipment or perks, however the mechanism works best. 

This plays to the die hard players, as evident in the increase in numbers of lesser advantage sides ramping up to special event attendance,.  If players must, then let them go to "capture the sheep".

[stabbyy]

everyone switch to bish then they have to switch... perfect solution

[Zygote404]

It's been good having you on Bish Nat! You are correct in your assessment of Bish and the "war" mentality. We also tend to evaluate more and see who needs hitting on. If we see Rooks are making a move closer to winning in percentage of base numbers they own...we'll focus on them to slow things up. Or sometimes if we see them having a lot of our bases but need a whack of NIT fields we'll go hit Nits to encourage them to start working them and slow the attack on us.

You see - some of us look at the bigger picture...not just who we hate most (although I do admit some nights a specific country pisses me off and I will target them relentlessly for that evening)

<S> to all but especially to my Bishlandians

Its more likely Bish have more strat players because they have the numbers advantage.  Strategy players are very likely the first to change to a numbers advantaged country because its strategically better to have numbers.

Very likely if Rooks or Knights started to have numerical superiority over a period of time you'd start to see most strategy players moving to those.  People, especially strategically minded people, hate losing repeatedly.

Me I'm kindof dumb, I fly early war planes and choose the weakest side because

[BowHTR]

everyone switch to bish then they have to switch... perfect solution

Clearly you haven't met most of the Bish. They will whine and complain of ENY, and swapping is not an option for most of them.

[nugetx]

Clearly you haven't met most of the Bish. They will whine and complain of ENY, and swapping is not an option for most of them.

Remove Bish       

[The Fugitive]

To me this is a combat game. You want my bases, fight for them. You want to stop me from grabbing your bases fight me, dont resupply  Then there is the win the war guys. You want to win the war then fight that way.

This past weekend, on the small isle map Knights and Bish had the rooks down to something like 40% of their fields left and were STILL avoiding each other. Id like to see a something kick in once a team hits 25% of an opposing teams bases the hardening of hangers and building starts going up. While it isnt a "stop" action it would make it harder and may get the attacking force to split and start pushing the issue on the other front. Fighting two hordes isn't fun for anyone. Using this weekend as an example it would have eased the attacks on Rooks maybe leaving a defending force to hold those fronts while the main group/horde moved to the other side of the map to push for the win.

While the Rooks could have continued to push to get bases back, even to the point of building their own horde on one front it still would have created more battles and that after all is what we are looking for right?   

[molybdenum]

Its more likely Bish have more strat players because they have the numbers advantage.  Strategy players are very likely the first to change to a numbers advantaged country because its strategically better to have numbers.

Very likely if Rooks or Knights started to have numerical superiority over a period of time you'd start to see most strategy players moving to those.  People, especially strategically minded people, hate losing repeatedly.

I'm a strategy player but I'd tolerate losing 90% of the time as long as the team I was flying for was at least trying to win.
All three sides get into a furball or grind-the-already-beaten-adversary-into-the-dust mentality at times, and when the bish do it's less frustrating for me to fly for the rooks, even though they'll very likely lose. And all three sides have their share of strategy players, but I think the bish in general are more map-win oriented. This attitude + numbers = bish wins most of the time.

[Dace]

Its more likely Bish have more strat players because they have the numbers advantage.  Strategy players are very likely the first to change to a numbers advantaged country because its strategically better to have numbers.

Very likely if Rooks or Knights started to have numerical superiority over a period of time you'd start to see most strategy players moving to those.  People, especially strategically minded people, hate losing repeatedly.

Me I'm kindof dumb, I fly early war planes and choose the weakest side because

This is the issue. Too many people took the easy road ( and switched to Bish ) when the going got tough. And all it did was compound the problem. Back in the days before the numbers decline there were a couple big squads per country. Big squads make it easier to gather a base taking horde or defend against one. As the numbers started to decline, the big squads of rook and knights faded away while the bish still had a few. Thus making it easier for the Bish to gather a horde and roll a map. As this goes on, all the "strategy" players of the rooks and knights think "man, this stinks getting horded all the time. I'll just switch to Bish and join the horde. Then I can be a winner too." I know at least 3 former knights personally that went this route. They couldn't stand getting horded all the time so they just said screw it and joined the horde.

[Chilli]

I'm a strategy player but I'd tolerate losing 90% of the time as long as the team I was flying for was at least trying to win.
All three sides get into a furball or grind-the-already-beaten-adversary-into-the-dust mentality at times, and when the bish do it's less frustrating for me to fly for the rooks, even though they'll very likely lose. And all three sides have their share of strategy players, but I think the bish in general are more map-win oriented. This attitude + numbers = bish wins most of the time.

This is why "Win the War" is becoming moot.  The strategy involved is likened to chess (balance assets and opportunities), yet the game being played is checkers (pile on with  numbers and swing wildly), just with chess pieces. 

Another prime example of counterproductive game play, hording of Tank Town bases.  Any map, like that played on the last two days or so, which has a feature designed to offer optimal opportunity for quick and balanced ground wars, becomes the target of country griefers.  In the case of  the current bases they do not include maprooms and are easily taken when lightly defended during sparsely populated time zones.  Due to that effort of a TINY portion of the community, none of the community get to enjoy its promising attributes.

If you don't know what sparsely populated time zones are or don't care please don't give me the why not defend/ re-take excuse.  Besides, I did just that, took Lancasters and shut the base down, was lucky 4 or 5 other guys were cleaning up and one was wise enough to ditch and bring troops.    The Tank Town spawns were retaken and a couple ran supplies to that base.

The result:  Within 45 minutes it was lost and taking close to 1/3 of the entire country population to do - over, wasn't about to happen.

[wil3ur]

I switch sides fairly regularly, especially if there's a big numbers imbalance, however I do tend to avoid the Bish, even with low numbers.  There are a couple of squads on that side that believe that they are the premier squad in AH, and by proxy, should rule their country.  Everyone else must bend to their whim and fly their missions or they get very very whiney on channel about people not helping.  It got to the point where the few furballers such as myself over there were having fights intentionally ruined by these squads (flying in and flattening air bases) with no intention of actually taking the base just so they can say that the fights over, now join my mission.  It left a bad taste in my mouth, and I've really avoided that country for the most part since.  I understand it's not all Bish that do this, but they've got some very loud very whiney children who like to take their ball and leave if people don't play their way.