Author Topic: Disillusioned with Japanese tools  (Read 3703 times)

Offline nrshida

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Re: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
« Reply #30 on: July 22, 2017, 03:29:27 AM »
Them new fangled shooting irons

The first mistake was giving up on flint! :old:


such a sword really doesn't perform or resist edge damage all that much better than a modern sword in the $1000 range. 

Agreed. Modern steel at least functionally equivalent. Ironically when fuedin' was the principal business in Japan, polishing was just done to the functional level too. Only in the more peaceful stage did the aesthetic come to the fore. Arguably that phase of polishing was showing the 'impurities' in the forging and heat treatment. All martial arts get flowery eventually. I expect Glock will go the same way  :rofl


Tamahagane steel constructed Japanese swords are impressive, but there are other swords and types that are equally impressive.

I thought this was quite interesting:



A blade shape which seems to excells at both cutting and thrusting. A rare thing indeed! Of course the originals never made in steel. The 'fossil' record of the Celtic sword apparently is now complete and proves the Greeks copied it and not the other way around. In your face ancient Greeks.

Still take a Webley-Fosbery for EDC though  :banana: (full auto, obviously):




Lol, sometimes  :P. It really depends on what I'm doing. Chopping herbs, slicing lemons or oranges, or trimming a large roast or leg of lamb, and things like that I usually just hold the handle like normal.

Crikey you're making me hungry now Kampfer. I'll be round for dinner in twenty minutes!

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Offline bustr

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Re: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
« Reply #31 on: July 22, 2017, 06:02:59 PM »
Tamahagane steel constructed Japanese swords are impressive, but there are other swords and types that are equally impressive. Just one example, like the Ulfberht is just as much a technical marvel for its time period,  yet nobody holds the opinion that they are some sword without peer, which they absolutely were for their time period.

I own many swords, many of them Japanese and Chinese in origin, from WW2 officers made from pretty cheap steel, to full length katana and wakizashi that are several hundred years old.  I'm also a member of the Japanese Sword society of Canada, and a friend of mine runs the http://www.nihonto.ca/  company, sourcing Japanese swords and weapons for commercial sale.  While the time and techniques put into a modern commissioned Japanese sword constructed by authentic/historical methods, especially the polishing and sharpening, can be appreciated, such a sword really doesn't perform or resist edge damage all that much better than a modern sword in the $1000 range.  Blended carbon steel swords these days made with 1095/1060/1045 blended steel that are deferentially hardened, I'd put them up against any priceless Tamahagane constructed sword with a 3 month polish job, in terms of cutting/battle performance and edge damage resistance.  That's how good the modern steel and techniques have gotten in punching out blades that perform.  Are they as pretty?  No, and obviously they hold little historical value or significance, but they work as well as anything ever made.

Considering how many swords companies like Paul Chen and Ronin Katana sell, and how many students like ITTA and other iaido/kenjutsu/tameshigiri schools have, plus the kendo clubs around here, I think the interest in Japanese swords and swordsmanship is at an all time high.  My first short story I based on the missing Honjo Masamune in fact, mostly due to the current level of interest in swords in general. 

Bustr - you ever do any work with/for James Williams in California?

For cooking blades I've used the same Spyderco set they gave us when my former company used to distribute their knives, I don't think one of them was retail more than $100, and they still sharpen up like they were new.  MBS26 stainless steel, nothing special at all.

No I had an agent named Cary Condell out of San Francisco back in the late 80's. He was trying to get the SF museum of fine arts to let me work on the restoration of some of the handles in their collection. I'd reached the point that other collectors didn't know if my re-wraps were sourced from Japan unless he told them. Fame was not paying the bills so I went into the IT industry. Mr. Williams was probably a restoration customer through Condell. Once my work was at that level, he started pushing handle re-wraps. Unless the sword you are re-selling has historic significance or the wrap is of a significant school of work, you get the handle re-wrapped like remodeling your kitchen to resell your home. I spent a lot more hours touching up pieces for resale and doing re-wraps versus new work from scratch.

Most sword students are on a budget including in my school, so I was always being requested to come up with cheap ways to do things. I was told once by several students that they could just use a table saw and a router and didn't need to spend the years I did learning to do everything with traditional tools. There is a set of three chisels for in letting the the two halves of the saya blanks and you can modify western chisels with a propane torch. They were not interested in all that work.   

Always wondered if anyone had a custom router bit created that would do a generic blade cross section, especially with a few of the sword web sites I've seen who will supply inexpensive generic saya for Iaido. You still have to ship them your sword, otherwise it takes about 6 hours by hand to shape the blank, rip it by hand, plane the faces, and inlet both sides. Then scrape down high points with a special knife, let alone creating the koiguchi and tuning it to the habaki. Those students didn't know you had to account for the habaki and collar the mouth of the kurigata with horn or even durable plastic. They were not interested in learning how to make a basic copper one. And they decided to use fine sand paper to work down the high spots. Guess they had money to burn on a sword polisher.     
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


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Offline FBKampfer

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Re: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
« Reply #32 on: July 23, 2017, 07:10:04 PM »
Crikey you're making me hungry now Kampfer. I'll be round for dinner in twenty minutes!

Lol, if you make it to Portland in 20 minutes, I'll happily feed you. It's carne asada tonight.
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Offline BuckShot

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Re: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
« Reply #33 on: July 23, 2017, 10:23:25 PM »
I really like Japanese wood saws, the kind that cut on the draw. I use mine all the time.
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Offline icepac

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Re: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
« Reply #34 on: July 24, 2017, 10:24:21 AM »
Those guys in the video with the swords are pasty!

Offline steely07

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Re: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
« Reply #35 on: July 24, 2017, 06:09:49 PM »
Bustr,

  If you have a Katana on the short side,like 27 inches,I can find a home for it!!!

  Long ago in a far away place I too used to practice Bushido,well it was part of the Akijistsu I was trying to learn!

  I always had an issue with the blade lengths,28 plus inches always messed me up,I actually need a blade 26 and 1/2 inches but a 27 would do,just about impossible to find unless you have one custom made. My wife's sister lived in Japan for several years and I pleaded with her to get me on from there but I think my wife intervened!  She doesnt like me playing with sharp pointy things....... :furious :furious :furious


   :salute

Morf, I own one of these, it's only a cheapie, but it's a good cutter, only 23' also, very manouverable :)

Check out the videos of them cutting up small logs, it's a strong blade.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUDjKpmoDZc


http://www.chenessinc.com/9260oniyuri.htm

Steely
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Offline morfiend

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Re: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
« Reply #36 on: July 24, 2017, 06:20:15 PM »
Morf, I own one of these, it's only a cheapie, but it's a good cutter, only 23' also, very manouverable :)

Check out the videos of them cutting up small logs, it's a strong blade.

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=kUDjKpmoDZc


http://www.chenessinc.com/9260oniyuri.htm

Steely


  Thx for the link,I will look further into this! :aok



    Now I just have to figure out a way to get it into the house without SWMBO finds out....... :noid




     :salute

Offline bustr

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Re: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
« Reply #37 on: July 25, 2017, 11:49:12 AM »
Have it shipped to a friend. Then he comes over with a gun case with two "new" toys in it to show them to you. He leaves with one toy. You can always tell the missus it's on loan until way in the future.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline morfiend

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Re: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
« Reply #38 on: July 25, 2017, 01:30:06 PM »
Have it shipped to a friend. Then he comes over with a gun case with two "new" toys in it to show them to you. He leaves with one toy. You can always tell the missus it's on loan until way in the future.


   :rofl :rofl :rofl  Nice Bustr but I live in Canada,if a friend came over with a gun case she'd think something was up!!

 All I really need do is get it into the mancave....... No women allowed! I have several primitve weapons on the walls so it would be easy to hide! :aok  It's the getting it outside to practice that would be the real issue. That and I dont usually "hide" stuff from my wife as there's really no need to.


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Offline nrshida

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Re: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
« Reply #39 on: July 25, 2017, 02:07:00 PM »
All I really need do is get it into the mancave.......

It's the getting it outside to practice that would be the real issue.

The solution is obvious old friend: store it outside in the woodshed!  :rock

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Offline Gman

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Re: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
« Reply #40 on: July 25, 2017, 03:48:38 PM »
Cheness is well known for making good quality entry level swords and blades.

Check our Ronin as well, Sword buyers guide and a bunch of different sword forums rate their blades to be the best bang/$ for under $1000, and their mid range $300 swords are excellent for the price.  Their Elite level blades can be found on sale in bare blade setup for under $500 frequently too.  They usually have a "sword of the month" deal, and offer one of their Pro level $300 swords for $250, which is a great deal.  http://roninkatana.com/
« Last Edit: July 25, 2017, 03:50:23 PM by Gman »

Offline steely07

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Re: Disillusioned with Japanese tools
« Reply #41 on: July 25, 2017, 05:37:07 PM »
Have it shipped to a friend. Then he comes over with a gun case with two "new" toys in it to show them to you. He leaves with one toy. You can always tell the missus it's on loan until way in the future.

I am ashamed to say I've done this with guitars ;)
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