Author Topic: Thanks War Thunder!  (Read 17197 times)

Offline Slate

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Re: Thanks War Thunder!
« Reply #120 on: October 20, 2017, 11:42:10 AM »
  Too long to find a fight?   :headscratch:  I have gotten out of my old routine by logging in and changing country to the lowest number side and defending bases. Instant action! Get a little altitude and smite those field vulchers. They don't know what to do with a fair fight.  :airplane:
I always wanted to fight an impossible battle against incredible odds.

Offline ACE

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Re: Thanks War Thunder!
« Reply #121 on: October 20, 2017, 12:02:40 PM »
I would be very very interested in what you son likes about WT vs AH.

HiTech

Not his son but I can tell you my opinion. Instant action. That’s it.
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Offline AAIK

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Re: Thanks War Thunder!
« Reply #122 on: October 20, 2017, 12:17:56 PM »
Its all about the action: The twirling, diving, turning, climbing, sicssoring dance that ignites the senses and tension! A beautiful choreography that ends up in the "Death" of one person over the other.

:airplane:

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Offline thndregg

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Re: Thanks War Thunder!
« Reply #123 on: October 20, 2017, 01:02:26 PM »
Not his son but I can tell you my opinion. Instant action. That’s it.

Therefore it appeals to only that particular "cattle chute" demographic.

HT's game has endeavored to appeal to a much broader spectrum from the less patient to the more patient, to the immediate combat, to the strategy and resulting eventual territorial goal-oriented combat (such as bomber missions have instigated), to those that excel in fighters, to those that SUCK at it (like me) and prefer bombers or tanks.

Wouldn't be here if it were purely fighter-based.
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Offline bustr

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Re: Thanks War Thunder!
« Reply #124 on: October 20, 2017, 01:35:52 PM »
Just watched a bunch of WT videos again to observe the terrain and objects in the terrain. Along with everything setup like an FPS shootem up game with all the HUDs you can imagine, live time aimbots, live time info on target damage, enemy detectors, on and on and on. It's trading a human in a special ops suit for an airplane suit, or a tank suit.

Our terrains are 1 sector = 25milex25mile, either 20x20 or 10x10 where as their terrains are 10 klick x 10 klick or 15x15 depending on the amount of objects that will be stuffed into the terrain. Our world is 24x7 persistent theirs is how ever long the match period runs. So in their tiny world they can have killer graphics and "round" things everywhere. Trees that can be knocked over, designated structures that can be knocked down and run over, and so forth. They even have realistic tank tread paths in dirt that stay persistent due to this.

I'm not sure what the maximum number of objects are that can be present in our terrains, it looks like in a space smaller than one of our sectors they are pushing that number to give a very limited number of guys at a time, the illusion of COD with wings or treads. Not a bad trade off if your audience only wants boom and bling while looking like keystone cops chasing chickens using shotguns with aimbot lazer sights. Everything else looks rockin and baddddddd. I wish our tanks were as durable as their tanks, our tank world is a grim incredibly dangerous place compared to their keystone cop world. But their tanks got all that bling like working exhaust flaps and exhaust, tank tread paths in the dirt, sinking in water when they drive into it that looks like sinking into the water. They can kill each other by ramming a tank and pushing it off a cliff into water. I wish we had that tank damage modeling so our tanks could drive up to each other and slug it out round after round in the 10v10 melees they have. In the end it looks like 10 keystone cops surrounding an elephant and beating it to death with .22s. Buuuuuttttt, it gots allllll datttt BLING..... Oh thier M4's with rockets have an aimbot so they can zero in all of the rockets on a single tank, WoW...I'm still not sure what constitutes skill in that game with all the computer aided everything.

It also looks like they use two terrain editors, a macro editor for air combat a bit like ours with the same terrain tile boo boos I run into when I cut farm tile with a river. You see a road run to the river, then pickup again on the other side because the tile was laid down with a broad brush to put in all the farm land in a few strokes. They clearly expected the current generation of gamers to not notice or care while they were going bling, bling, bling at each other. And a micro editor for tank combat terrains to create very realistic micro geological features with town objects that look like some of the Pro high definition 3D town packages I've found on the internet. The clutter and tree tiles used for both types are different, the tiles for air combat are more like ours while the tiles for tank combat are optimized to tank combat. Seems everyone in computer tanks wants long vistas to see the enemy and shoot at them unless they are inside of a town or village.

It looks like they worried about the issues we have with tanks disappearing under trees. They have obvious open vistas, trees limited to having a bit higher canopy and low density, or only clumps of trees like pines, then long open spaces in between. Once you build terrains for tank combat, you can see those things in other terrains if that was a concern by the creators. Because their arenas are so small, they can use higher detail interactive objects and more of them. And then you have really strange flight profiles, like an Hs129 with a 75mm cannon that can go vertical right after rapid firing the cannon and pull G inducing turns with that thing strapped on. The Hs129 with 75mm could barely stay in the air when it fired the cannon and had to fly straight for a bit after firing to gain back momentum. It didn't do any high G maneuvering.

So they cannot stuff 100 or more guys into their tiny arenas and have all the bling, or keep all of the interactive objects in a damaged state after a tank rolls over them for 24x7. They have to timer control combat periods and not allow other players to wander in and out of the arena during the combat timer period. More players means more objects your PC or laptop or whatever has to process for and the experience starts becoming one of diminishing returns. And watching combat in that game is watching a bunch of COD players in airplane or tank costumes flying or driving around going bling, bling, bling. But, it's not as grim as our world, you can see in WT the physics modeling has been tweaked to keep xBox, PS2 and gameboy style players happy and clueless.

It will take time to get people back into our world, the magic is when a base capture turns into 30 players or more contesting that space in an orgy of combat constantly re-upping to get revenge or defend. Or a giant furball takes place like at furball island in NDisles. Time\distance needs to be adjusted for a while so people can organically create that on their own. It's what keeps you coming back to this game. We are not WT, and I like our keystone cops better, they actually use the sights on the shotguns to aim. 
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Krusty

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Re: Thanks War Thunder!
« Reply #125 on: October 20, 2017, 01:56:43 PM »
I really hated the draw distances in WT. Too short. Objects didn't display well in the bomb site and you had a hard time spotting them to line up sometimes. You had red dots and neon indicators all over your screen pointing to stuff you couldn't see. Like pill boxes for example: You couldn't see them until you were already rolling in on a dive but you had to aim at the red dot. It was not a great system, and even the curves/bumps of the ground itself would change as you got in/out of range. I did not like that at all.

Offline Wiley

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Re: Thanks War Thunder!
« Reply #126 on: October 20, 2017, 02:28:20 PM »
Therefore it appeals to only that particular "cattle chute" demographic.

Heh...  I like that term a lot.  The thing is, that demographic is a vast majority.  Gotta have instant action, gotta have something to work towards, or in their mind, there is no game.

Wiley.
If you think you are having a 1v1 in the Main Arena, your SA has failed you.

JG11

Offline Mister Fork

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Re: Thanks War Thunder!
« Reply #127 on: October 20, 2017, 02:33:53 PM »
The AvA is already setup as a 2-sided war on small maps.  Except that most don't like the historical aspect of it of not being able to fly what they want. It's a lot more realistic as well when I ran my setups. Cloudy and foggy days. Fuel at 1.0 (it's 2.0 in the MA), AAA at .25 strength (it's 2.0 in the MA). It meant you couldn't run into your ACK and hide. You had to face your enemy.

And we hardly see more than 2-5 people in there (if any at all) except for tank-Thursdays.  Still, it's what people are asking for, and yet we don't see anyone in there.  :headscratch:
"Games are meant to be fun and fair but fighting a war is neither." - HiTech

Offline Wiley

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Re: Thanks War Thunder!
« Reply #128 on: October 20, 2017, 02:43:31 PM »
Still, it's what people are asking for, and yet we don't see anyone in there.  :headscratch:

The thing is, yeah people ask for it, but how many of them?  It's always looked to me like the usual dozen or two people (if that) talking about it.  There aren't many of them, but they're noisy so it seems like there's a demand.  I could be wrong.

Wiley.
If you think you are having a 1v1 in the Main Arena, your SA has failed you.

JG11

Offline Krusty

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Re: Thanks War Thunder!
« Reply #129 on: October 20, 2017, 02:45:56 PM »
Yup, that's part of it, definitely. Don't confuse vocal with majority. And that "vast majority" demanding instant action? Prove it. WT isn't exactly the poster child of a well developed or run game. It has actually burned a lot of bridges with its players including killing off sim battles.

Offline Wiley

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Re: Thanks War Thunder!
« Reply #130 on: October 20, 2017, 03:14:37 PM »
Yup, that's part of it, definitely. Don't confuse vocal with majority. And that "vast majority" demanding instant action? Prove it. WT isn't exactly the poster child of a well developed or run game. It has actually burned a lot of bridges with its players including killing off sim battles.

"Prove" is a bit tough, but I'd say simply put, when it comes to online PvP games, take a look at the kind of things that are popular.  WT vs AH.  PUBG vs Rust/DayZ/any of the other similar games.  CSGO vs Planetside 2.  The core gameplay is similar, but the amount of time you need to invest to get to that core gameplay is much much shorter in the former of all the above examples.

As for the sim battles, I would say apply your same comment.  Don't confuse vocal with majority.  The guys that liked sim battles talked a lot on forums etc.  The guys that liked the arcade modes were too busy playing to post.

Wiley.
If you think you are having a 1v1 in the Main Arena, your SA has failed you.

JG11

Offline bustr

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Re: Thanks War Thunder!
« Reply #131 on: October 20, 2017, 03:35:36 PM »
The purists and strategists are always in here telling the forums that the instant gratification crowd is ruining the game and will eventually kill it. And then the instant gratification crowd keeps paying the light bill so the purists and strategists can complain about them. But, they refuse to consider the instant gratification crowed has to be kept happy to keep paying the light bill which is what will really kill the game.

Right now more than ever, the light bill is more important than the purity of who knows what, or the Olympian mental minutia of strategy.
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Mister Fork

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Re: Thanks War Thunder!
« Reply #132 on: October 20, 2017, 04:25:42 PM »
Agreed all... people post that they want a 2 sided war, that they want easier base capture, and we already have an arena that allows all what they want for and yet no one shows up to it.

I think the word is "vocal minority" - of which on the forums, there are a WHOLE LOTTA vocal minority posters. :)
"Games are meant to be fun and fair but fighting a war is neither." - HiTech

Offline Wiley

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Re: Thanks War Thunder!
« Reply #133 on: October 20, 2017, 04:49:58 PM »
I think the word is "vocal minority" - of which on the forums, there are a WHOLE LOTTA vocal minority posters. :)

Well except for me.  I speak for all people.  :lol :bolt:

Wiley.
If you think you are having a 1v1 in the Main Arena, your SA has failed you.

JG11

Offline Lusche

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Re: Thanks War Thunder!
« Reply #134 on: October 20, 2017, 04:59:31 PM »
Well except for me.  I speak for all people.  :lol :bolt:


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