M3 and troops

[Randy1]

This M3 supply issue is blown way out of proportion in regards to stealing players from the air to air part of the game.

The only time large resupply efforts occur, is when a country has large number of players advantage over another country.  During balanced country play, the number of players resupplying is very, very small.  If you remove those that would not fly anyway, then the number of players resupplying during prime time would be insignificant to the air portion of the game.

[LilMak]

I like you and respect your opinion Randy. However, my experience is different.

A couple nights ago on the Pizza map the sides were even but there wasn’t much going on our (Rook) front. Knights started an effort to take a base with numbers. I did what I typically do and showed up at the biggest red darbar on the map. High fighters and bombers were working over the field and town with only a couple defenders in the area. Alert went out and assistance was requested on country by me and another. None really showed. Once town was broadcast flat and goons were in the area, then the help arrived in the form of an M3 supply train. The Rook M3s the area outnumbered the people in planes (two) and lone Wirb driving to town.   Town was resupplied and the fight dissolved shortly after with a couple Knights noting that their efforts were thwarted by resupply.

The net result from my perspective was that I virtually was on my own against a rather large force, no one was really interested in defending our position, M3s ruined the effort the Knights put in, and the only interesting fight on the map dissolved after the Knights gave up with numbers on all sides around 40. No significant fight anywhere else on the Rook front.

In my opinion this is because M3 is the path of least resistance. There is no need to answer the call to defend when you can simply wait until the field is in extreme danger before running a low risk supply run. Something needs to give to restore some balance because this is becoming the norm from my point of view.

[Becinhu]

I like you and respect your opinion Randy. However, my experience is different.

A couple nights ago on the Pizza map the sides were even but there wasn’t much going on our (Rook) front. Knights started an effort to take a base with numbers. I did what I typically do and showed up at the biggest red darbar on the map. High fighters and bombers were working over the field and town with only a couple defenders in the area. Alert went out and assistance was requested on country by me and another. None really showed. Once town was broadcast flat and goons were in the area, then the help arrived in the form of an M3 supply train. The Rook M3s the area outnumbered the people in planes (two) and lone Wirb driving to town.   Town was resupplied and the fight dissolved shortly after with a couple Knights noting that their efforts were thwarted by resupply.

The net result from my perspective was that I virtually was on my own against a rather large force, no one was really interested in defending our position, M3s ruined the effort the Knights put in, and the only interesting fight on the map dissolved after the Knights gave up with numbers on all sides around 40. No significant fight anywhere else on the Rook front.

In my opinion this is because M3 is the path of least resistance. There is no need to answer the call to defend when you can simply wait until the field is in extreme danger before running a low risk supply run. Something needs to give to restore some balance because this is becoming the norm from my point of view.

Lilmak is spot on. If a fight is a fur ball to start with it normally stays that way. Legit base take attempts see virtually zero defense other than some 88 dweeb throwing pot shots at town and a string of m3s.

For example, Monday on the pizza map. Knights had a cv at the southern most bish base. Steep hill for the lvts to climb and probably a 20-30 minute drive to town at least. We had roughly 6 planes off the cv. 2 planes took off to defend and 1 moron lobbing 88 shells. The town never got down to white flag but there was a solid stream of m3s running to town with supplies. The vh was up and a single tank in town could have killed any lvt finishing that long drive. It could have turned into a great fight but instead it turned into m3 central...tons of fun.


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[Randy1]

LilMak and Becinhu, what you described does happen but kind of like a plague of 262s it does happen but not a dominating game strategy. 

I must say too when we are in the base capture mode, having the red try to beat us back with an M3 just adds to the excitement.  Several times I have watch the last troop head to the map room door and the town  or a gun pops and or the M3 slides in to kill the last troop.  It can be heart stopping.

In that could be the reason for game enjoyment are just not the same.  My highest priority and my most fun comes from taking bases or stop the taking of a base.  Twice now I have had the good fortune to capture the last base to win the map.  A good feeling I must say.

If it is an over whelming red horde then an M3 may be the best choice if the vulch light is on and the next base is too far away to get a plane back in time to kill troops.  In my case and our squad's choice, the m3 resupply is not the first choice but one of many to choose from based on the conditions surrounding the attempted capture.

I still argue, "The vulch light is on," game mentality has hurt air to air combat more than M3s ever will.

[SPKmes]

If it is an over whelming red horde then an M3 may be the best choice if the vulch light is on and the next base is too far away to get a plane back in time to kill troops.  In my case and our squad's choice, the m3 resupply is not the first choice but one of many to choose from based on the conditions surrounding the attempted capture.

I still argue, "The vulch light is on," game mentality has hurt air to air combat more than M3s ever will.

 ( Bolded)  Unfortunately this isn't actually the case... it is a first defense for many these days... especially when it is only 30min down time.... You can drop a town and before you turn to head home there is only 5 mins left.... and I play with low numbers many times only three people trying for the take so it is a very noticeable thing.... there is a place for it for sure...but not such a powerful part... as said earlier.... 10mins default is just too much... cut that time down and increase it in percentage form as the strat is destroyed could help the cry's....Not my game so I play with what I have... just stifles play is all.

(Bold ital)  I do agree with this... has always happened but is very noticable when you don't have the uppers there were to break the vulch.... easy get in a gun...oh guns gone...get in an M3.....pffft.... all goes hand in hand... when there was no resupply  you would see a stream of osti and wirbs on the way to town....

Bottom line is... everyone is different..... some like to hide and squirm... others like to challenge themselves... as free person you have the right to your choices... life can be hard for some.... first world problems   hahaha

[Becinhu]

LilMak and Becinhu, what you described does happen but kind of like a plague of 262s it does happen but not a dominating game strategy. 

I must say too when we are in the base capture mode, having the red try to beat us back with an M3 just adds to the excitement.  Several times I have watch the last troop head to the map room door and the town  or a gun pops and or the M3 slides in to kill the last troop.  It can be heart stopping.

In that could be the reason for game enjoyment are just not the same.  My highest priority and my most fun comes from taking bases or stop the taking of a base.  Twice now I have had the good fortune to capture the last base to win the map.  A good feeling I must say.

If it is an over whelming red horde then an M3 may be the best choice if the vulch light is on and the next base is too far away to get a plane back in time to kill troops.  In my case and our squad's choice, the m3 resupply is not the first choice but one of many to choose from based on the conditions surrounding the attempted capture.

I still argue, "The vulch light is on," game mentality has hurt air to air combat more than M3s ever will.

Well in the case I described the field had not been touched. Not a single ack gun killed, no one attempting to vulch. But still the defense was 88 lobtarding and m3s. I’m sorry but if I see 5 planes trying to take a base with zero gv spawns into it there is less than a zero percent chance that I jump in an 88 or grab a m3. I’m jumping in a fighter and go try to kill some red guys.


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[Randy1]

Well in the case I described the field had not been touched. Not a single ack gun killed, no one attempting to vulch. But still the defense was 88 lobtarding and m3s. I’m sorry but if I see 5 planes trying to take a base with zero gv spawns into it there is less than a zero percent chance that I jump in an 88 or grab a m3. I’m jumping in a fighter and go try to kill some red guys.


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I would not jump in an M3 either. A fighter would be my choice as well.

Our squad spends a lot of time in heavy fighters.  More than most I would say.

[LilMak]

I would not jump in an M3 either. A fighter would be my choice as well.

Our squad spends a lot of time in heavy fighters.  More than most I would say.

In the case I described the auto guns were still active and the VH had returned to service as well. Resupply wasn’t a big deal when the numbers were higher. Since the overall numbers are down, the FedEx trips to town are becoming a factor. I’d just like to see a bit of balance restored. Doesn’t seem fair to the Knights that evening. They put a pretty good effort in for 30 plus minutes and were stymied by one guy in a low Jug and a fleet of M3s. Their effort was not rewarded and the end result was the only fight on either front was eliminated by a supply train.

[Lusche]

By the way, the M3 got it's troops back. The next step could be... interesting 

[Randy1]

LilMak, maybe the only solution for the air game would be to for htc to eliminate the base take portion of the game as well as manned guns. 

Maps would be easier to make.  Who knows if the player numbers would go up or down.

[The Fugitive]

There is nothing wrong with the air game. What is hindering it is the M3 parades that seem to knock the wind out of the attacking team. The air game is about fights. Fighter for a base, or fighting to save a base. When the NOEs were rampant and we where stuck playing wack a mole to find fights the game was adjusted. NOEs were not removed from the game, but the use of them was adjust by changes.made by HTC. The M3 resupplying or towns seems to have the same effect of busting up combat. Hopefully that will be adjusted.

[Flayed1]

LilMak, maybe the only solution for the air game would be to for htc to eliminate the base take portion of the game as well as manned guns. 

Maps would be easier to make.  Who knows if the player numbers would go up or down.

 I would hazard to guess, based on things like when the WWI arena was added that #'s would drop.  When that arena was introduced, everyone was there and furballing like mad but after a day or so people trickled back to the MA and the WWI arena sat unused for the most part.  Granted there are many more planes to use in the MA and that may have had a lot to do with it but I feel another big component was that endlessly upping to kill or be killed gets quite boring for a lot of people after a bit without some further objective, or reason to continue to do so.
 In general the war is the reason for much of the combat in game and I for one firmly believe that if it were removed you would see many players disappear.   

[LilMak]

LilMak, maybe the only solution for the air game would be to for htc to eliminate the base take portion of the game as well as manned guns. 

Maps would be easier to make.  Who knows if the player numbers would go up or down.

I feel like you’re making a point by taking it too far. At no point have I said eliminating manned Guns or removing the base take is a good idea. My opinion is that our problem is numbers and participation. Resupply wasn’t an issue until the numbers dropped. Now it feels as if it’s created an imbalance and I believe we need to scale it back so it isn’t the primary option for base defense. Base supplies need a perk or they need to be less effective in town resupply or something to encourage combat. That’s why the map is designed the way it is. To encourage people to fight. M3 resupply is degrading that fight at a point when we need it to occur more than ever.

[popeye]

One of the issues that I see when numbers are low is that the sides are often unbalanced as well.  So you have one team with "spare" players who attack the opponents strat.  Then you have a situation where a friendly town/GVbase can be deacked for more than an hour waiting for the one-pass-white-flag-troops-hiding-in-trees capture.  So, resupplying the town/GVbase might seem like a good alternative to sitting in a tank watching the map room or circling in a fighter for an hour.

Since game play dynamics change with the total player numbers and numbers balance, a fix for one situation might not work for all situations.

[Lusche]

  So, resupplying the town/GVbase might seem like a good alternative to sitting in a tank watching the map room or circling in a fighter for an hour.

Or town buildings would get their fixed downtime of 45 minutes back, while the City once more adjusts the downtime of the factories (which, of course, would not have the flat 180 minutes downtime anymore either). Players could still resupply bases, and ack in towns.

Or even simpler, the M3 now carries troops and GV supplies only, while only the SdKfz carriers field supplies. As the SdKfz has only about 60% of the M3's speed, that would change the dynamics of resupply without eliminating it alltogether. Resupplying would still be viable, even necessary at times, but much less the best immediate answer to a town going down.