Author Topic: New GV dar  (Read 47418 times)

Offline bustr

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Re: New GV dar
« Reply #510 on: December 30, 2017, 04:47:49 PM »
Here is the simple secret to why the enemy tanks kept re-upping at the spawn.

That 300ft highland which made them feel semi invincible and that they could dictate the fight from safety. Every one of these I've setup works out the same way for the same reasons in our game. A safe place to shoot from just like why the AH2 crater on CraterMA was so popular. They are absolutely not fair to the players on the airfield or to you being able to fly off to take part in a fight. One weenie with german optics from the safety of the trees on a hill can take your field down, vulch uppers on the runway, and even capture out from under you especially if he first salts the spawn with supplies. It means one weenie with a tank is dictating how 12 guys will spend their $14.95. Killing him once will not work because the topography is just too much in the favor of one weenie vs 12 fighters wanting to enjoy their evening fighting other planes. But, that kind of black-male is what GVers are really asking for and angry about in their perception of GVDAR. How you create the micro terrain around feilds to spawn GV into will determine if they keep coming back or find another field looking for terrain that makes them ground driving muppets with big cannons.

You can see in these three screen captures why that location was so attractive to the attacking GVers. The bridges and map room next to the tower sort of evened the advantages to spawning 300ft above the airfield three miles away in a TigerII hiding in the trees. The 1\2 mile grass buffer just barely kept the field from being captured with tanks defending it all over the place. I was in a manned gun and saw the panzer and M3 on the field exactly where no one expected them to show up from behind the GV hanger. I wouldn't do this kind of a micro terrain with a town as the capture focus because that is out of balance and would favor expending very little effort to capture feilds during prime time. I would put the spawn and town on elevations with a stream and bridges between them. A mile separation between spawns is looking better for getting spawn battles going instead of forcing everyone to drive then get whacked. The white circle is the random spawn area in the game so the terrain builder can paint it with trees and clutter to favor that area to protect against spawn camping. I wonder if anyone has noticed that at spawns on Oceania when the farm land clutter had too large of an open space where I placed a GV spawn? Probably not.....

This crap takes time to learn by building and testing it with terrains, then observing how those terrains are utilized in the MA versus screaming at Hitech in the forums to wave his magic wand. I suspect I'm re-learning an art that long ago disappeared when many of our old comrades left the game. As for Hitech, he is more valuable to our future happiness being a master programmer than being a minutia expert at how to play GV in the MA. Now I've got to find ways to give GVers this kind of advantage and balance it for game play without making me want to throw my mouse against the wall since it gets them to stay around and fight for hours.       








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Offline molybdenum

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Re: New GV dar
« Reply #511 on: December 31, 2017, 10:32:24 AM »
Here is the simple secret to why the enemy tanks kept re-upping at the spawn.

That 300ft highland which made them feel semi invincible and that they could dictate the fight from safety... A safe place to shoot from just like why the AH2 crater on CraterMA was so popular. They are absolutely not fair to the players on the airfield or to you being able to fly off to take part in a fight. One weenie with german optics from the safety of the trees on a hill can take your field down, vulch uppers on the runway, and even capture out from under you especially if he first salts the spawn with supplies. It means one weenie with a tank is dictating how 12 guys will spend their $14.95. Killing him once will not work because the topography is just too much in the favor of one weenie vs 12 fighters wanting to enjoy their evening fighting other planes. But, that kind of black-male is what GVers are really asking for and angry about in their perception of GVDAR.

Lol. I would substitute the word "weenie" with the phrase "skilled and clever player," and in my AH career I never once vulched uppers on a runway with a GV; (rarely drove anything but an m3 and a wirble in fact) and did have it happen to me on occasion, though the situation you describe above was not at all common. Being sniped on the runway or coming out of a hangar was annoying, but in a good way. Players who had the ability and took the time and effort to get into an advantageous position like that earned my respect and made the game more interesting.

And no, GVers are not asking for GV dar to go away so they can do that sort of sniping thing, and to accuse them of having that motive is silly. It's simply very much easier now for a plane with a bomb to find and kill a GV, and it wasn't hard before. That limits game play options significantly.
Like I said in a previous post, many players are having favorite toys taken away from them and are being told to find new ones. Why would that go over well?


Offline Ciaphas

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Re: New GV dar
« Reply #512 on: December 31, 2017, 11:35:27 AM »
Yeah, they are asking for the GVdar to go away as it spoils the game play style they are used to. That is literally the message that has developed in this thread... .


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Offline Electroman

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Re: New GV dar
« Reply #513 on: December 31, 2017, 02:00:21 PM »
Yeah, they are asking for the GVdar to go away as it spoils the game play style they are used to. That is literally the message that has developed in this thread... .


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No, what some have asked for was to "adjust" the GVDar. Like have a general dar bar present in a sector for example where there is no field / dar ring. To have GVDar down when the base radar is taken out...just like with airplanes. And to not have a square that is so small it generally leads you to the GV in a very short time.

I think if those 3 things were adjusted most would be fine with the GVDar.

Offline Ciaphas

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Re: New GV dar
« Reply #514 on: December 31, 2017, 02:06:47 PM »
Quote
And no, GVers are not asking for GV dar to go away so they can do that sort of sniping thing, and to accuse them of having that motive is silly. It's simply very much easier now for a plane with a bomb to find and kill a GV, and it wasn't hard before. That limits game play options significantly.

So are they asking it to go away or aren’t they?



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Offline 100Coogn

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Re: New GV dar
« Reply #515 on: December 31, 2017, 02:13:11 PM »
I thought the Storch was introduced to assist in locating GV's.  Not that popular huh?

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Offline bustr

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Re: New GV dar
« Reply #516 on: December 31, 2017, 02:21:02 PM »
Moly,

Build several MA terrains, put tests into them and observe them over a year. Have you done that yet??

Aside from the well known players who don't care how often they get towered and do most of the "tank fighting", the rest want to sit on an elevation "safe" hide, sip their beers, and single finger each other to death from inside the Klingon cloaking trees. Dr7 is an exception because he dosn't need any elevation and has no problem hunting you when his hides run dry of targets. GVDAR is perceived to take that away from them when half the time even flying between the trees at bush top level, in a 3x3mile area you cannot find them when they shut down. Hitech's squirrels with cameras I guess in AH3 are doing a second job camouflageing every tank in the arena the moment it shuts off it's engine.

As I commented, now I have to find a way to incorporate elevations that don't turn the game into a GVer dictated cesspool of PO'd flyers getting 24x7 long ranged from some elevation three miles away when they want to enjoy their $14.95 furballing. Since you have only your opinions and no terrains, you don't get that MA terrains have to be balanced for all of Hitech's customers. That helps keep more people in our game.

Buzzsaw was imbalanced towards GVers until Waffle took 4k out of the central elevations. It also proved to me exposing the HQ and city was OK which I didn't do on BowlMA by placing it where it would be on a full 20x20 terrain while the real combat area was a 10x10 terrain. No one gets that to this day. Oceania is a 10x10 with the HQ and city exposed becasue 10x10 is a small terrain. Still, both terrains were balanced for air combat and ground combat along with micro terrain tests to help me understand ground combat. I still cannot believe no GVer figured out I setup the towns on BowlMA so you can mount the town hills closest to the airfield and snipe it with german optics. Means you can pick off defenders driving to the town or, camp the runway. GVDAR does not stop players from getting their tank into towns and hiding it.

Took a year of observation, listening to VOX and reading text along with reading in the forums to discover what kind of a spawn GVERs think is "ideal and fair to them". More like what makes them a ferret with a bazooka in a gerbil nursery. Same as how all the flyboys want cannons and warp 12 while turning on a dime then hovering like a dragonfly is their perfect WW2 fighter. The perfect AH3 GV spawns to make GVers feel like Hitech reeeaaaalllllyyyy understands their pain and cares about poor little them. If this is what it takes, once again it's the terrain builder and not Hitech since he does not spawn out and drive every single spawn a terrain builder puts into a terrain. He is trusting us to have the welfare of the game at heart. "Players don't" and very selfishly only want what they want so they are uber to the max in their tiny part of the game. Why I keep asking you "if" you have built an MA terrain yet because an imbalanced terrain will get you a lynch mob here in the forums ASAP just like Buzzsaw before Waffle modified it.

This is how you tell AH3 GVers you love them from their point of view, the perfect spawn points to be a ferret with a bazooka in a gerbil nursery and imbalanced in favor of GV's to the max without a lot of thought to even the positions. The first one is my terrain Oceania and the river along with rotating the airfield to protect the GV hanger from the spawn sniper kind of evens this scenario. The second one is A2 on Buzzsaw, the GV hanger is a gerbil in the nursery because the field needs to be rotated 180 degrees to protect it. Every time that GV hanger would come back up, a tank took it back down in minutes unopposed because of the elevation and distance. That is out of balance and abusive of many players by a single player. Kind of like single finger salutes that blinded whole country's in AH2 until Hitech made changes to the HQ. This is why terrains take so long if you are being honest about balancing the outcomes for the whole community.





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This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline molybdenum

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Re: New GV dar
« Reply #517 on: December 31, 2017, 05:02:31 PM »
Moly,

Build several MA terrains, put tests into them and observe them over a year. Have you done that yet??


Jeez, is that all you can say when confronted with irrefutable logic?? "Build your own terrains and then we can talk?"
The question was rhetorical because you obviously said a lot after your initial sentence, but none of it addressed my point, which, simpified, is:

"The GV dar makes it far too easy to kill GVs with bomb****s."

That neuters a key component of the game, and I am not a GVer! Wirbs for defense, m3s for troops and resup...that's probably 90% of what I do on the ground. I don't have the same dog in the hunt as people do who primarily prefer to GV, but it still annoys me enough to the extent that I'm out of the game tomorrow. What do the true GVers think? (A rhetorical question again).

Here's a real question that I hope you'll answer. If you know the answer.
How closely does your vision for how AH3 ought to be played coincide with HTs? If you guys are on the same wavelength then there's no point in me looking back and hoping things balance out, because the game will be trending in a direction I dislike and to hell with it.

The GV dar is using a hammer to squash a gnat. What can't you guys see about that?

Offline bustr

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Re: New GV dar
« Reply #518 on: December 31, 2017, 05:26:56 PM »
GVDAR is now one more thing I have to think about while balancing GV micro terrain combat areas with what Hitech has given GV's to make them invisible along with not making them into ferrets with bazookas in a gerbil nursery. While giving them some advantages balanced by knowing what I know about killing GV's with planes and tanks.

Moly,

Have you built a terrain yet or are you just going to yell at Hitech to wave his magic wand and make you happy until you turn blue in the face as usual? Friday night the bish loved my 300ft spawn over the airfield with a river between them and the airfield. I stopped yelling at Hitech during the two years of the alpha\beta testing and started creating solutions which you seem unwilling to do for your vision of GV combat in this game. That in effect is some almighty powerful personal control of where this game goes if you stop yelling and start building. The only person who can stop you is Hitech and he wants diverse terrains because it's good for business. You just have to be willing to make any changes he asks of you and not take offense. He is a good partner for last minute ideas because of his long experience with this venue.

Just PM Easyscor and he will get you started on your version of an AH3 Gvers paradise. Remember to research what has not worked on terrains like Buzzsaw and what I've written about my own. Then review offline in CM mode all of the terrains in rotation to see how your predecessors thought things should be done. There are some real boners and some genius setups at different locations. Otherwise, you scream a lot without much to support your position other than the sky is falling.   
bustr - POTW 1st Wing


This is like the old joke that voters are harsher to their beer brewer if he has an outage, than their politicians after raising their taxes. Death and taxes are certain but, fun and sex is only now.

Offline Ciaphas

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Re: New GV dar
« Reply #519 on: December 31, 2017, 05:27:33 PM »
No it’s not, name one forward operating location in the history of forever that had no sentries. Tanks and other war machines make a lot of noise and because of this their location can be easily triangulated from the ground without tech wizardry. So, does this mimic as close to reality as possible? Yes it does, is it perfect? No but it does what it is intended to do. So, adapt and overcome.


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Offline atlau

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Re: New GV dar
« Reply #520 on: January 01, 2018, 11:11:06 PM »
Even with the gv dar tanks can remain hidden indefinitely with ah3 trees. I'd argue the squares should be even smaller. Some players will leave their tanks parked near a base for hours just to grief. Or we need parking meters and parking tickets.

Offline 1stpar3

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Re: New GV dar
« Reply #521 on: January 02, 2018, 01:28:03 AM »
Even with the gv dar tanks can remain hidden indefinitely with ah3 trees. I'd argue the squares should be even smaller. Some players will leave their tanks parked near a base for hours just to grief. Or we need parking meters and parking tickets.
ABSOLUTELY! Parking meters would ROCK! Plus revenues from them could pay for some more adds :aok :x Under the right tree....ALMOST impossible to find a tank with engine off! Me and Electroman search a GV dar square for about 30 minutes the other day...only found him because he started up to change positions bit. So if GV isnt moving and had some patience, the GV dar acts just like a dar bar with radar being out. Surely it isnt too much to change how you approach GVing a bit? Its like most things....THEY CHANGE! Roll with it a bit and you will see that it isnt all that different  :old:   
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Offline popeye

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Re: New GV dar
« Reply #522 on: January 02, 2018, 08:24:13 AM »
Even with the gv dar tanks can remain hidden indefinitely with ah3 trees.

Yes.

And GVdar is just as helpful to attackers as to defenders by revealing when it is not safe to run troops on prepped ports and Vbases.
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Offline GOODBYE

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Re: New GV dar
« Reply #523 on: January 03, 2018, 03:40:06 AM »
Let's all just be friends? :pray :rofl

Offline atlau

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Re: New GV dar
« Reply #524 on: January 03, 2018, 05:43:17 AM »
Maybe we can get valet parking to move cybros plane around every few hours.