New GV dar

[8thJinx]

Here's why I think this needs to stay right where it's at.  Last night we were trying to find a GV on the ground at 44, and even with GV sector dar, it took 3 planes over 20 minutes of really intense tree-top flying to find him.  And even then, one of us had to run out of gas, bail, and search on foot to find the tree he was under.  He was buried deep inside the 3-mile red square.  If he's being stealthy, and doesn't want to be found, it will take a couple of planes and at least one person on the ground to find him. 

But here's the important point: that scenario created a good 20-25 minutes of focused, fun action.  And if taking that base was a priority, his friends could have joined him there in planes and got us off his back real quick, which would have created even more action.

[rvflyer]

The only one  that is hard to find is our famous base camper to just make a base flash. He use to use GVs but now can't because of the gv dar, he now uses a airplane and has become very proficient and landing off base and taxing under a tree and is almost impossible to find but yet flashes a base. I will continue to think the gv dar is arcade and not needed to make the game fun, in fact it is much more fun without the dar. It can get the Adrenalin going to take a gv and sneak a base right under the eyes and nose of the base keeper.

Here's why I think this needs to stay right where it's at.  Last night we were trying to find a GV on the ground at 44, and even with GV sector dar, it took 3 planes over 20 minutes of really intense tree-top flying to find him.  And even then, one of us had to run out of gas, bail, and search on foot to find the tree he was under.  He was buried deep inside the 3-mile red square.  If he's being stealthy, and doesn't want to be found, it will take a couple of planes and at least one person on the ground to find him. 

But here's the important point: that scenario created a good 20-25 minutes of focused, fun action.  And if taking that base was a priority, his friends could have joined him there in planes and got us off his back real quick, which would have created even more action.

[bustr]

An adjustment Hitech could make to the GVDAR that would make it less of an impact to GVs but, not have to remove it. Airplanes in flight don't see it, players in the tower\ship\guns and GVs do. It's that time scale thing in which a plane can span a sector in the time it takes a tank to drive the width of a GVDAR block that is against GVs. The players who use the map from the tower to inspect the state of the rest of their country will see the active GV's. With the new ch7 range VOX, war has traditionally had problems with poor communication and won battles due to excellent communication. Then the forum whines will be answered, didn't you bother to look at your map in the tower you dweeb. And a small amount of locating uncertainty will be given back to GV's which are relatively easy to kill once located.

After all, the town and field will still flash letting you know the GV has not towered or been killed yet.

[Krusty]

I'd rather have a timer that blows you up after X minutes because "Sappers located your vehicle and blew it up with sticky mines" or some such when you camp for too long.

Making it not visible from the air defeats the purpose and doesn't help the problem: invisible GVs when they shouldn't be.

[Devil 505]

An adjustment Hitech could make to the GVDAR that would make it less of an impact to GVs but, not have to remove it. Airplanes in flight don't see it, players in the tower\ship\guns and GVs do. It's that time scale thing in which a plane can span a sector in the time it takes a tank to drive the width of a GVDAR block that is against GVs. The players who use the map from the tower to inspect the state of the rest of their country will see the active GV's. With the new ch7 range VOX, war has traditionally had problems with poor communication and won battles due to excellent communication. Then the forum whines will be answered, didn't you bother to look at your map in the tower you dweeb. And a small amount of locating uncertainty will be given back to GV's which are relatively easy to kill once located.

After all, the town and field will still flash letting you know the GV has not towered or been killed yet.

Taking away the GV dar from aircraft defeats the purpose of having it in the first place.

[Chris79]

If the maps weren't set up like the hurtgen Forrest there would be no need for gv icons

[8thJinx]

If the maps weren't set up like the hurtgen Forrest there would be no need for gv icons

This is correct.  And this is a map making issue, not a game creation issue.

[bustr]

Once you know a GV is in your area from the tower or a gun, you no longer need the GVDAR to look for it with my reasoning and experience.

I never needed GVDAR to locate and kill tanks with my IL2. The first time I watched the dar box shift letting me know my target was heading for the town, it was obvious the crapola would hit the fan here in the forums. That GV didn't last very long. I've sat in the tower on one feild and chatted with a squadmate on the ground at another. While we talked I watched the GVDAR at the feild he was at vectoring him in to a GV that had spawned in to sneak up and get him at his spawn. That moment the box shifts is too much info when you are playing ground controller for a GV. A simple GVDAR bar that only says how many GV are within a 5mile radius of the tower would be fair. The shifting boxes and earlier shifting piedar are a bit over kill against GVs. Once the GV darbar pops up, it's not like they will warp onto the airfield and kill your plane, or an M3 able to sneak into the town waiting for a bomber to white flag it. Still the longer you wait to respond during the 5min timer for a tank to reach something or the 2min for an M3, the closer they will be to sitting in a bomber hanger or hiding in the town which seems fair. As for long cross country drives with no field around, gratis that as an NOE until they get withing 5 miles of the strat or once again a field. Most strat are close enough to an airfield the NOE GVers will have only minutes to shoot at the place if anyone is paying attention or cares. Much of the time they aren't......   

Hitech on the first Christmas Eve just before AH3 went live turned on the ability for everyone in every country to see all plane dots and GV dots on the map. GVs didn't last very long but, fighters were easy to find until they turned out to be 20k+ hiding from us. And he turn off the sun for this and we still killed all the GVs because the dots showing for each GV made it criminal how easily we vectored into them. This came to mind the first time I watched a GVDAR block shift as a GV passed from one 2x2 into the next 2x2.

[Randy1]

I try to play a balanced game between GV fighters and bombers.  Why was this gv dar thing even added?  I say it is step in the wrong direction.  Another shovel of dirt in the GV game play grave.

[bustr]

Accusing Hitech of trying to kill his own game, along with the indirect questioning of his business acumen with that accusation, is taking an "insulting swipe" at him in his own house while using it as a veiled threat to try and force him to do what you want him to do in your "opinion". Kind of a childish posture.

The best I can tell from responding to GVDAR is it cuts about a minute off my time finding a wirble that towers me while under the influence of it's klingon cloaking trees. Other than that, the two mile block of space it's in I could always determine that by referencing the spawn to it's sound or lack of sound. And it appears to work quite well for feeding defending tanks to a hidden individual who racks up some easy kills because the defenders follow the dar block rather than caution. I'm dumb founded watching this repeat itself constantly now. The only serious difference from not having GVDAR is no more sneaking fields on the dead side of the map unless people really don't want to bother with checking out that dar block.

So the complaints boil down to: Hitech give us back our "total invisibility" or we will accuse you publicly of stupidly killing your game and stop just short of saying we will cancel our subscriptions as an implied threat.

Personally I still think the GVDAR bar should only show that a GV is somewhere within a 5 mile or slightly less radius of the field and get rid of the moving block that follows the GV. Just make it a bardar for GVs in the vicinity.  Hitech can even place a second line circle around a field as a range gauge to help players understand what a 5mile or so radius looks like when they up to search. It's no different than the mental image a competent IL2, HurriD,Ju87,Jabo pilot used to slaughter GV's without GVDAR. And Hitech still gets his function that brings players together for combat and not hiding from combat. Otherwise, I suspect with all the insults, you are stuck with GVDAR as it is now.

[waystin2]

I don't see this killing the game, I see Hitech pushing the game a certain direction.  I like it and I think it's positive.   

[lyric1]

I.E. to be able to find a fight.

HiTech

On the fence about the ground radar. My experience at least defending your own country strats is the moment you spawn to drive to the strat to hunt the enemy,2 things happen they all tower out or all start running from the strat.

Reason being the M4/75 is the most efficient method of killing strats.
Also the least survivable tank in the game. So the logic of the M4 driver is to bail or run because in these instances the ground radar feature is tool to avoid fighting.

[Devil 505]

So the logic of the M4 driver is to bail or run because in these instances the ground radar feature is tool to avoid fighting.

The tool facilitates finding hidden or sneaking GV's. It's existence prompting GV drivers into new ways of cowardice is not a problem with the tool, but the players it was created to find.

[JimmyD3]

Accusing Hitech of trying to kill his own game, along with the indirect questioning of his business acumen with that accusation, is taking an "insulting swipe" at him in his own house while using it as a veiled threat to try and force him to do what you want him to do in your "opinion". Kind of a childish posture.

The best I can tell from responding to GVDAR is it cuts about a minute off my time finding a wirble that towers me while under the influence of it's klingon cloaking trees. Other than that, the two mile block of space it's in I could always determine that by referencing the spawn to it's sound or lack of sound. And it appears to work quite well for feeding defending tanks to a hidden individual who racks up some easy kills because the defenders follow the dar block rather than caution. I'm dumb founded watching this repeat itself constantly now. The only serious difference from not having GVDAR is no more sneaking fields on the dead side of the map unless people really don't want to bother with checking out that dar block.

So the complaints boil down to: Hitech give us back our "total invisibility" or we will accuse you publicly of stupidly killing your game and stop just short of saying we will cancel our subscriptions as an implied threat.

Personally I still think the GVDAR bar should only show that a GV is somewhere within a 5 mile or slightly less radius of the field and get rid of the moving block that follows the GV. Just make it a bardar for GVs in the vicinity.  Hitech can even place a second line circle around a field as a range gauge to help players understand what a 5mile or so radius looks like when they up to search. It's no different than the mental image a competent IL2, HurriD,Ju87,Jabo pilot used to slaughter GV's without GVDAR. And Hitech still gets his function that brings players together for combat and not hiding from combat. Otherwise, I suspect with all the insults, you are stuck with GVDAR as it is now.

Not all hiding is avoiding combat, if your objective is to white flag a town with an M4, and A20's are overhead searching for you, what would you do? Hide. A gv hiding to avoid bombs is not different than an NOE avoiding Radar.

The current version of the GVdar is livable and much better than the first iteration, but it does nothing for me or my ability to find gv's in an aircraft or another gv. While there have been a few tasteless comments about the GVdar, I think the vast majority of the comments on both sides of the issue have been thoughtful and civil. As Lyric1 pointed out it does have its drawbacks as well, there is no perfect solution.

As a side note to the issue, it would be nice if the gv's could safely tower if there is no enemy gv within their GVdar and enemy aircraft are more that 6K away.

[JimmyD3]

The tool facilitates finding hidden or sneaking GV's. It's existence prompting GV drivers into new ways of cowardice is not a problem with the tool, but the players it was created to find.

uhhh Devil, this is a cartoon game, how can you be a coward in a cartoon game. Try to be more rational in your responses.