Author Topic: The HO  (Read 12780 times)

Offline Arlo

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24759
Re: The HO
« Reply #180 on: December 16, 2017, 12:13:38 PM »


The better question would be how often did pilots deliberately go into any engagement with a HO shot. 

Most kills were by guys the dead plane never saw. 

I understand that cannon birds in particular in AH are going to HO on every pass.  I expect it.

Because there is no risk, since no one dies, it doesn't take any particular skill or 'courage' to do so in the game cause the worst that can happen is you lose your cartoon plane and get another.  Because of that, comparing a WW2 pilot's actions to here doesn't work.  They risked the HO and if they blew it they died for real.

As long as it works, the HO shots are going to continue to be taken by just about everyone because it's quicker, takes less effort and will get you your 'attaboys' faster.

Fought a guy tonite in my 38G.  He was in a Yak 9T.  We headed towards each other co-alt and he started firing 1.5K out.  I slid off to the left, went vertical and he lost sight of me apparently as I killed him from a dead six shot before he'd completed half a turn.  This happened again with the same guy.  When the HO missed, it was like he had no clue what to do.

I tried to talk to him on private and see if he'd talk about what happened, but got no response.  I assume he was new.

At the same time another guy is spouting on 200 that he'd been HO'd by a P51B and he was going to HO everyone from now on.

I thought P51B?  4 50s and you are mad at him for losing a wing going nose to nose with a B pony?

Final fight of the night was with a D9.  He too did the 1.5K out and firing bit.  I ducked him twice while he ran to the next sector before revving.  I was almost out of fuel and not going to get back to base.  On the third run in I kept the nose on and when he started firing, I fired back.  Killed him but ran into his wreckage :)

Personally I'm still lousy at getting out of the way in the big old 38.  But I worry more about the guys that don't HO then I do about the one's who do.

Offline BFOOT1

  • Silver Member
  • ****
  • Posts: 1249
Re: The HO
« Reply #181 on: December 16, 2017, 12:17:01 PM »
I try not to HO. When I was younger and flew planes that had lots of cannons I did it constantly, simply because to me it was how I could actually obtain a victory. Now a days I do my best not to HO. I will HO on the merge if my opponent opens fire first. Like most of you, I expect to be hoed on every merge. Since I started flying FSO many years ago I’ve studied a lot of the aircraft to know their strengths and weaknesses so that after the initial merge I may work that into my favor.

I personally believe that many of the new players we get do not care about ACM and only care about their score and kills, so they will HO, and continue to do so. To the select few that do want to learn ACM, I believe the HO should be taught as a last option, but they should also be taught to be ready to be HOed in every merge and how to counter it.

I am by no means a good stick, but with some of the new guys I’ve helped, I’ve tried to teach them my ideas on the HO. I also believe that the new players should follow what helps them achieve their success to build their confidence. If that is the HO then let them HO until they get comfortable with learning advanced techniques, maneuvers, and tactics.

 :salute
Member of G3MF
III Gruppe, 8 Staffel, JG52, flying Black 12 (Kuban Scenario)

Offline Arlo

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24759
Re: The HO
« Reply #182 on: December 16, 2017, 12:23:56 PM »
You guys are ignoring the question.

I stopped trying HO's dead on long ago because I lost 99% of them.

But, so much effort is made by some of  the player base to PR everyone out of engaging in the activity short of HiTech Creations telling players HTC considers it a BIG NO NO and can be grounds for expulsion;  I'm curious why the group effort against other paying customers?

Why all of the PR campain to make people beleive HOing is as bad as sex between two men or hacking the game code? Why the witch hunt to stigmatise any player that engages in it? One might ask why are you taking part in openly descriminating against other players freedom of play based on an activity HTC created as an intergal part of the environment?

All of you do realise you are taking it upon yourselves outside of HTC rules of play to personally descriminate against other players based on one game activity: Head On Shooting?

Many of you get steamed up in the O club if your personal rights get stepped on. But it is OK for you to step on others in this game based on your personal bias towards how the game HAS TO BE PLAYED by a group peer effort to stigmatise them from thier same personal rights while playing in Aces High.

So lets have a vote guys. Do you beleive your rights to how the game should be played superceed everyone elses into the future?

Better yet can we get a GOD ruleing from HiTech on the HO. I have problems with peer group preassure to stigmatise paying customers.

1.) Is it an acceptable part of game play and a combat technique like any other?

2.) Is it the sign of an uncouth lowlife and anyone engageing in it is fair game to be stigmatised and made to feel thier $14.95 is less than the peer group identifing them?

(Flew with Bustr last night. Great guy and a true asset to the community. Wish I didn't die so much in front of him but he didn't seem offended by that. Love that I-16, none-the less.) :)

Offline Arlo

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 24759
Re: The HO
« Reply #183 on: December 16, 2017, 12:52:04 PM »
Rodent was more then willing to use a comment like "oh wow that's the first time I've seen you use your flaps ever Junky" that same night so Arlo...quit defending his honor because he was obviously more th(a)n ready to fuss that night.

The true motive for this thread appears to come to light in this quote. You're angry with Rodent57 for that (rather mild) comment, aren't you? It seems a bit over the top to try to organize the community against him over something like that even though you tried to frame it differently, at first. Guess you knew how far such a ridiculous complaint would go if you took it straight to HTC (or did you try that first?). Seems his honor is much more worth defending than yours.

And with this observation I will indeed leave this deceptive thread to you and whomever. Carry on (and carry on). :)

Offline Becinhu

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2633
Re: The HO
« Reply #184 on: December 16, 2017, 02:22:55 PM »
I tried to HO the other night....cop told me to go home and that was my one warning.


Sent from my iPhone using Tapatalk
412th Braunco Mustangs OG
412th FNVG FSO
80th FS "Headhunters" MA

Offline nrshida

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 8492
Re: The HO
« Reply #185 on: December 16, 2017, 02:54:33 PM »
You're angry with Rodent57 for that (rather mild) comment, aren't you?

"Thank you for buying Joo Janta 2000 confirmation bias reading glasses. We are sure you will enjoy endless hours of prejudice reinforcing and self-stroking smugness reading any text while looking stylish at the same time".


And with this observation I will indeed leave this deceptive thread

What are the chances.


I will use the HO on a plane with a much better turn rate.  If I head towards a Zeke (or a brewster)  and he sees me, he will turn towards me. The ho will be the only shot I get, because I can't turn with those planes.

This is quite an interesting case to discuss, as I know Mr. Vinkman to be a competent (mostly) K-4 stick. Of course he is free to take any shot he pleases. He's a big boy and pays his subscription. I'd be curious to know your estimated jousting success rate? Better than 50/50?

Let's analyse this match up. Let's say A6M vs K-4, just picking one arbitrarily. The tactical aspect is suggested by some of the relative attributes of the planes. Assuming reasonable set up for a merge the K-4 is an energy builder, has a higher top speed, better vertical stability and torque manoeuvring and a much higher power loading. Plus the armament is particularly well suited to the kinds of shot solutions the airframe generates and very decisive. The A6M of course a famous TnBer, has also a pretty good sustained climb and is pretty well armed with an armament also well suited to the solutions it makes (but very different to the K-4). Assuming your opponent had Rud3boi / Bruv119 aim let's just leave toughness out of the question and try not to get shot at all.

Neither of these aircraft have particularly good energy retention but the K-4 being faster and both planes above corner speed in the merge suggests it's inconceivable that a K-4 cannot top-out higher and in a safe position above the A6M. Assuming the K-4 pilot plays his cards right with a good set of opening moves. Let's look what's changed at the top. The K-4 will be nose-high or even nose-vert when he stalls, even if you don't know post-stall manoeuvres it will self correct to nose-low by itself with a roll or two. Very rapid DPS is available if you do learn to post stall. The A6M will have lost its turn rate advantage temporarily because without much airspeed there is no surplus lift. It does not share the K-4s aility to torque manoeuvre. Plus the K-4 is above with both an energetic and positional advantage to descend at a slower rate, needing less thrust vector manipulation to make an angle. Now the A6M is defensive. The K-4 should have little difficulty cutting inside the initial turns of the A6M and generate snap shots. the A6M pilot's job is to establish a turn rate fight to get safe and then bring his guns to bear. The K-4 should turn away from the one-circle and engaging full flap nose-to-nose manoeuvring with a good amount of vert thrown in should enable it to cut inside the early phases with a smaller and out-of-plane radius. Even if the A6M reduces angle-off-tail on the K-4, its higher power loading allows it to out turn the A6M into the vert and generate overshoots. Especially if the K-4 stick can get more wings-level on his pull up (which he should because he's initiating the turns). The longer the K-4 pilot can sustain this kind of vertical scissors, the longer his superior power-loading will announce over the A6M.

Classic power-loading vs wing-loading battle. I'd have to give the edge to a prepared competent K-4 stick, even though his fight is much harder (and I think more rewarding).

Happy Friday Pipz!
-=Army of Muppets=-
"Get stuffed Skyyr, you freak" - Zack1234