Author Topic: Radar Realism (Read 1863 times)

hblair · « **Reply #45 on:** July 25, 2001, 11:01:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs1:
the fite is the thing... the sooner and easier to find the better. everything else is just kidding yourself.
lazs

I agree lazs, that's why, in addition to my sky signs proposal, I would also like to implement airstarts. I mean why fiddle around with that crazy takeoff stuff, it just keeps you out of the fight longer.

Ahh, another idea here. Lets make a button on the clipboard that says "Get in big Fight", click on it and wham!, you're in a big fight, with bullets and 'splosions! Oh man what an idea!

lazs1 · « **Reply #46 on:** July 25, 2001, 11:58:00 AM »

well... no, hblair... the melee needs to be a living thing. you need to be able to determine when someone is entering and have some time to react. air starts and being thrown into the middle would negate that. they can't just spawn out of nothing right in the fite like oh, say, ground vehicles. anytime u pop up next to someone it's a bad deal. the melee could be fed quite adequetly by good dar and close together fields.

pepe... how you enter the melee is what you are talking about.. that would not change. if you mean acm is killing someone who has no idea that there are any planes around then no... u are wrong.
lazs

hblair · « **Reply #47 on:** July 25, 2001, 12:07:00 PM »

I still think my "Get in big fight" idea has merit. I feel like lazs would just like to come into the fight with speed and altitude and be a big cheater head, like one of those evil nasty pony guys who use that evil speed, altitude and E retention stuff.

To Summarize:

Gimme bar dar.

Gimee dot dar.

Gimme sky signs.

Gimme "Get in big fight" button!

Regards,
hblair

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #48 on:** July 25, 2001, 12:09:00 PM »

Quote

Originally posted by hblair:
Gimme bar dar.

Gimee dot dar.

Yes and yes, just slightly refine them. All will be happy, all will be good, all will be right with the world and we will all have fun.
-SW

lazs1 · « **Reply #49 on:** July 25, 2001, 12:27:00 PM »

well sure hblair... of course i would, and do.. pay attention to what i say not what i do... and i thot i said lw guys don't get a vote?
lazs

hblair · « **Reply #50 on:** July 25, 2001, 12:27:00 PM »

No sky signs or "Get in big fight" button?

Pepe · « **Reply #51 on:** July 26, 2001, 02:10:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs1:

pepe... how you enter the melee is what you are talking about.. that would not change. if you mean acm is killing someone who has no idea that there are any planes around then no... u are wrong.
lazs

Beg to disagree...

On the melee & radar thing:
Letting aside that not everything is melee fighting, even in this particular field there are some things I think evident:

There is no use in risking a single feet of height to try to sneak a low 4 to 7 position, because radar (let's leave the icon stuff aside) will show attacker's dot, and ruin surprise.
"timid" kinda guys (as you describe them) wouldn't approach a furball straight, since the dot radar allow them to pick targets ingressing/egressing.

Doesn't those make a difference in melee ingress?

On the ACM point, I thought ACM were mainly involved with use of space, not with flying itself, that would be BFM.

ACM has all to do with trying to get an advantageous position over the bogie, and, of course, includes using blind angles, sun position, and all kind of tools. It is more a matter of tactics and geometry than pulling the stick this or that way.

I honestly don't see why the absence of in flight dot radar would damage furballers' interests. First, you have tower radar, and usually furballs last long enough to get there and die a good bunch of times. Second, and being an Ex-WB you know it, people usually answer when you ask "where is the action".

Where is the problem in "finding a fight fast"?

The only situation where on-board radar would make a difference is when the furball dilutes, and you are with no cons around. In this case, you have, at least, two evident and very fast options: a) Ask your squaddies/countrymen. b) Auger.

Anyway, I don't have even the slightest hope in this particular matter. It's been put up here sooooo many times, and we have seen no changes so far, that I seriously doubt any measure will be taken. It's a thorn in my AH side, and I assume I have to live with it.

Cheers,

Pepe

[ 07-26-2001: Message edited by: Pepe ]

Fester' · « **Reply #52 on:** July 26, 2001, 03:02:00 AM »

StSanta · « **Reply #53 on:** July 26, 2001, 07:20:00 AM »

The idea that dar is only updated when you give a .dot command is actually a *very good one*.

[ 07-26-2001: Message edited by: StSanta ]

lazs1 · « **Reply #54 on:** July 26, 2001, 08:44:00 AM »

hblair... no.

pepe... until you are willing to fly in finger fours and in real sqaud strength agains other planes doing the same you have no right saying anything you do is "historical" or realistic. The radar is at least as realistic as you or anyone else flying lone wolf looking for someone who has dozed off. Untill we can get the 360 degrees of real life view.. radar is a good substiture. Heck... current dar doesn't even give alt like the real stuff.... I don't think you can pick and choose the "realism" that fits your style any more than I can.

It appears that you don't want all those people in the arena finding the fight... you appear to want em all spread out and vulnerable to people who fly a certain style. it seems that a whole lot of people like to furball but very few fly finger fours at 20K or so... you would ruin the fun ao many on the off chance that a few would enjoy their "style" more.
lazs
lazs

hblair · « **Reply #55 on:** July 26, 2001, 09:48:00 AM »

Quote

Originally posted by lazs1:
hblair... no.
lazs

Well, how 'bout airstarts with 'splosions everywhere?

Pepe · « **Reply #56 on:** July 26, 2001, 10:22:00 AM »

Lazs,

Does the phrase "High fidelity air combat is the heart of Aces High, but it doesn't end there." rings a bell in your head? It is in AH homepage. High fidelity air combat requires two factors:
[list=a]

a sound and accurately modelled environment, (flight/damage model, etc., including, of course, realistic radar system implementation) and
historic behaviour within player community.

No inflight radar, except late war nightfighters.
No GPS
Vectors to enemy given by land crew.
Ground radar imprecise and requiring a highly trained personnel, at least in early war stages.

I know you dislike realistic simulation. But I came here because of the phrase mentioned before. If it wasn't for that, I would have choices aplenty. I could chose between FA, Crimson Skies, CFS, etc. etc. I am sorry that this is not bread&butter for you, but this product is sold as a simulation. And a high fidelity one. I did not read "furball like there is no tomorrow" anywhere in AH homepage, or anywhere else with regards to this product.

As you like to say, It boils down to lack of alternatives. For us, the ones who like a realistic simulation, there is no choice, at the time being, but AH. For you there is plenty of them. I don't want to force anyone to do anything. I just read Htc. statement, and would like to have it true.

Again and again, and yet again, I am not trying to ruin anyone else's fun, but I try to defend mine. If Hithech Creations sells me a "High Fidelity air combat" that's what I buy. Not more, not less.

Cheers,

Pepe

[ 07-26-2001: Message edited by: Pepe ]

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #57 on:** July 26, 2001, 10:25:00 AM »

Pepe one clarification: "High Fidelity air combat"

Furball. Air combat. Furball. Air combat. Furball. Air combat.

Those words are interchangeable.
-SW

Pepe · « **Reply #58 on:** July 26, 2001, 10:50:00 AM »

SW,

I think Furball is more restricted than air combat. Air combat is 1vs1, 2vs2, 1vs2, etc. etc., fighter vs bomber, even A-G operations can be taken as Air combat.....not all of this is furball. Don't you think?

Cheers,

Pepe

AKSWulfe · « **Reply #59 on:** July 26, 2001, 10:54:00 AM »

Air combat certainly does not include Air to Ground. A2G is included in Air operations.

Maybe I'm the only one that doesn't believe that 1vs1 or 1vs2 or 2vs2 or whatever were the common types of engagement.

WWI and WWII had large scale melees, those were the norm not the exception.
-SW