Author Topic: Maybe Willi Messershcmitt had a similar dilemma  (Read 4434 times)

Offline RODBUSTR

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Maybe Willi Messershcmitt had a similar dilemma
« on: January 05, 2018, 11:41:24 AM »
    Designing a plane like the Bf 110, Me 210, 410 and Me262 bomber.  Trying to be all things to all people and not pleasing as many as You would hope to.. Although Evers, Gastner and Zindel got It pretty close with the JU88s.   Is AH3 a simulator or fantasy game?     chasing B17s and have Them land on a carrier to get away.   Kind of laughable...  I subscribed 4 years  for the simulator part and thought It was pretty much spot on. but the more you play the more You learn it isn't.  I like It either way, but would enjoy It a lot More if It adhered more to the laws of physics more than It does, but I know a lot of players who are not interested in The history or engineering of the weapons on WW2. may like to  have more latitude in the weapons.   Age may play a factor in the type of interest one has.   I would hope that a game like this would give players the want to study World War Two.    Anyway, have a blast.

Offline hitech

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Re: Maybe Willi Messershcmitt had a similar dilemma
« Reply #1 on: January 05, 2018, 11:51:14 AM »
Other then the CV going 30 mph exactly why do you think it's not possible?

HiTech

Offline Mongoose

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Re: Maybe Willi Messershcmitt had a similar dilemma
« Reply #2 on: January 05, 2018, 12:15:29 PM »
  One of the reasons I play this game is the emphasis on real-world physics and the accuracy of the flight models.  I know that a simulator can't be absolutely 100% accurate, but I know that Hitech's goal is to come as close as possible with a home computer. 

  Just because no one actually did such a thing with a real WWII airplane does not mean that it isn't possible. 
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Offline Copprhed

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Re: Maybe Willi Messershcmitt had a similar dilemma
« Reply #3 on: January 05, 2018, 12:45:26 PM »
There seem to be certain people who re just never happy. PLEASE be happy, enjoy the GAME. It's a GAME, it's not war, it's not real life. HiTech does one hell of a job, and I am certain he's not getting wealthy of of this game. We should be saying thank you!
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Offline AAIK

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Re: Maybe Willi Messershcmitt had a similar dilemma
« Reply #4 on: January 05, 2018, 12:49:19 PM »
There seem to be certain people who re just never happy. PLEASE be happy, enjoy the GAME. It's a GAME, it's not war, it's not real life. HiTech does one hell of a job, and I am certain he's not getting wealthy of of this game. We should be saying thank you!
Thank you, Dale, most of us appreciate what you do to allow us to pretend to be heroes.

So maybe HTC should add a "play responsibly" sticker to the game?

Offline DaddyAce

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Re: Maybe Willi Messershcmitt had a similar dilemma
« Reply #5 on: January 05, 2018, 01:41:52 PM »
...... PLEASE be happy, enjoy the GAME. It's a GAME, it's not war, it's not real life. HiTech does one hell of a job, and I am certain he's not getting wealthy of of this game. We should be saying thank you!
Thank you, Dale, most of us appreciate what you do to allow us to pretend to be heroes.

Agreed......and I love the historical & accuracy elements too, such as are practical.  Thank you Dale, Skuzzy and crew!   :aok

Offline oboe

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Re: Maybe Willi Messershcmitt had a similar dilemma
« Reply #6 on: January 05, 2018, 02:50:43 PM »
Guys I think it may be theoretically possible to land a B-17 on an Essex class carrier, real world.   I found a diagram of this CV class here:

https://upload.wikimedia.org/wikipedia/commons/8/8c/Design_plan_Essex.jpg

The width of the flight deck is 109'; its length is 850'.  The B-17's wingspan is about 104'.  I think its possible to pick a line along the deck that avoids clipping the superstructure with your wingtip while still keeping the outboard main gear on the deck:


But, can it stop in time before it rolls off the front of the flight deck?   I found a declassified document called B-17G Standard Aircraft Characteristics here: http://www.wwiiaircraftperformance.org/B-17/B-17G_Standard_Aircraft_Characteristics.pdf

Here's the pertinent page, I think:


I've highlighted the stall speed (89 mph) and ground landing roll distance (1265 ft) on this image.   I found a formula for braking distance in this wikipedia article: https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Braking_distance

The maximum speed given an available braking distance d is given by: 
     
         v = √(2μgd)    where μ is the coefficient of friction between tires and deck, and g is gravity of Earth

I plugged in 850 ft for the distance and got a velocity of 233.24 ft/s, or 159 mph.   (Please check my math, I used a perfect 1.0 of the CoF).  I figure a B-17 would be coming in at just over stall speed (90 mph) and thus have a speed over the deck of 60 mph, or 88 ft/s.   This is much less than the 233 ft/s required to stop in 850 ft, so theoretically I think its possible.

Its nice to hear that someone was able to do this in AH - we could look at this as a strength of the game, not a weakness.    :salute

 
« Last Edit: January 05, 2018, 02:54:46 PM by oboe »

Offline wil3ur

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Re: Maybe Willi Messershcmitt had a similar dilemma
« Reply #7 on: January 05, 2018, 03:05:35 PM »
I've landed B24s on a CV, I've landed 262s and 163s on a CV as well...  It's not easy, but it can be done.
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Offline Nefarious

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Re: Maybe Willi Messershcmitt had a similar dilemma
« Reply #8 on: January 05, 2018, 04:12:27 PM »
Historical WW2 events happening in Special Events Arena nearly every Friday night if that's what you're after. PM me.
There must also be a flyable computer available for Nefarious to do FSO. So he doesn't keep talking about it for eight and a half hours on Friday night!

Offline DaveBB

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Re: Maybe Willi Messershcmitt had a similar dilemma
« Reply #9 on: January 05, 2018, 04:40:45 PM »
Currently ignoring Vraciu as he is a whoopeeed retard.

Offline oboe

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Re: Maybe Willi Messershcmitt had a similar dilemma
« Reply #10 on: January 05, 2018, 05:07:51 PM »
This NASA paper https://ntrs.nasa.gov/archive/nasa/casi.ntrs.nasa.gov/19780005100.pdf on friction characteristics of aircraft tires has a max CoF listed as 0.6.   I recalculated and get a max touchdown velocity of 180 ft/s, 122.73 mph, still well above the stall speed of the B-17.


Offline Randy1

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Re: Maybe Willi Messershcmitt had a similar dilemma
« Reply #11 on: January 05, 2018, 05:16:16 PM »
Even if three B17s could landed on a CV deck, they would have to be dumped overboard or the flight deck would be useless.  No captain is going risk his boat for a b17 anyway.

So let them land but score it as a ditch.

Offline wil3ur

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Re: Maybe Willi Messershcmitt had a similar dilemma
« Reply #12 on: January 05, 2018, 05:23:11 PM »
Throwing vessels overboard is nothing new.  Do you want to tell the Huey pilots in Nam that their missions didn't count because they had to shove their Helos overboard?   :rolleyes:
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Offline Zimme83

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Re: Maybe Willi Messershcmitt had a similar dilemma
« Reply #13 on: January 05, 2018, 06:03:35 PM »
A lot of fighters where thrown overboard to clear the deck. Land a B-17 would be to dangerous due to all the people on the ship. In AH on the other hand that isnt an issue, we can land on a cv because even if we break a wing its no problem. Since noone is dying in the game we also dont have a fighter squadron to cover the cv from enemy attacks... We do a lot of stuff that noone would do irl, even if it was possible, simply because we can.
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Offline Lusche

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Re: Maybe Willi Messershcmitt had a similar dilemma
« Reply #14 on: January 05, 2018, 06:33:50 PM »
Even if three B17s could landed on a CV deck, they would have to be dumped overboard or the flight deck would be useless.  No captain is going risk his boat for a b17 anyway.

So let them land but score it as a ditch.


But that hasn't to do anything with physics.

Oh, and no captain would risk his boat by sailing under the shore battery. No boat had unlimited fighters. And so on...
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