Author Topic: Suggestion regarding ground radar and spawns  (Read 5728 times)

Offline Wiley

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Re: Suggestion regarding ground radar and spawns
« Reply #45 on: February 21, 2018, 11:47:04 AM »
Not 80, 65. Same as the carrier deck.

Thanks for the correction.  All that stuck in my brain about it was "too low to fly under except on water" and I don't care to NOE much anyways.

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Offline 1ijac

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Re: Suggestion regarding ground radar and spawns
« Reply #46 on: February 21, 2018, 12:40:43 PM »
Did HTC change things? As long as I can remember, if radar is up, you need to be below 65 agl over terrain to not show dot dar in radar ring.  Dar bar is shown in a sector above 200 agl over terrain whether radar is up or not. 

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Offline Ciaphas

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Re: Suggestion regarding ground radar and spawns
« Reply #47 on: February 21, 2018, 01:08:26 PM »
How’s this for compromise?

Have GVdar pop when the GV is spotted by an opposing player.

If the spotter leaves the area and the GV moves the GVdar will only show the last known area of the GV.

If the spotter stalks the GV the dar will follow the movement of the GV until the GV is dead or the spotter loses interest and leaves the area.




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Offline popeye

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Re: Suggestion regarding ground radar and spawns
« Reply #48 on: February 21, 2018, 01:26:06 PM »
If the GVdar is supposed to represent information from "observers", just slow down the update rate.  If the update rate was say, 3 minutes (the time it takes the beautiful resistance fighter to rider her bicycle to the hidden radio transmitter) it wouldn't be quite so easy to track the GV's movements but would still show the "last known" location of a GV on the move, or the current location of a GV hiding under a tree for 20 minutes.   :D
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Offline icepac

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Re: Suggestion regarding ground radar and spawns
« Reply #49 on: February 21, 2018, 07:50:07 PM »
The guys complaining about not being able to find a fight really mean "can't find a fight where I come in with an advantage."

Offline molybdenum

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Re: Suggestion regarding ground radar and spawns
« Reply #50 on: February 23, 2018, 05:49:30 PM »
No Bustr...incorrect. There are a great many that complain about it while speaking in game on voice / country channel. It's a far greater issue than you try to minimize. The rest of us are simply tired of voicing a concern and it falling on deaf ears so we simply don't comment any longer. We've lost a number of players already, some specifically from our squad and more to follow. It has pissed off players to no end. Those of us still here will give it time in hopes that there will be at least some compromise as suggested through many posts already.

You continue to say "avoid using combat as a crutch". There is a significant difference in philosophy there. The same BS happens when fighters / bombers fly below dar. Are they avoiding combat? Damn straight they are - for a purpose...to make a sneak attack on a target. GV'ing and hiding in trees / sneaking long distance to a strat target / base is no different.

You can make whatever argument you want for one side or the other and there are arguments both ways. It would just be nice for a community to be "heard" instead of "dictated" to for a change and actually find a compromise based on community input - something all could agree to give up something but still have a sense of getting what they wanted. This is what make a game better.

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Offline waystin2

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Re: Suggestion regarding ground radar and spawns
« Reply #51 on: February 24, 2018, 08:32:47 AM »
No Bustr...incorrect. There are a great many that complain about it while speaking in game on voice / country channel. It's a far greater issue than you try to minimize. The rest of us are simply tired of voicing a concern and it falling on deaf ears so we simply don't comment any longer. We've lost a number of players already, some specifically from our squad and more to follow. It has pissed off players to no end. Those of us still here will give it time in hopes that there will be at least some compromise as suggested through many posts already.

You continue to say "avoid using combat as a crutch". There is a significant difference in philosophy there. The same BS happens when fighters / bombers fly below dar. Are they avoiding combat? Damn straight they are - for a purpose...to make a sneak attack on a target. GV'ing and hiding in trees / sneaking long distance to a strat target / base is no different.

It's not the sneaking of bases and it's not NOE that's a problem.  Folks seem to be mixing the two up with the whole GV dar thing so as to weaken the GV dar in the game.  The reason GV dar is here is because GV's are really HARD to see visually now.  I have over 1,200 kills in a Hurricane IID and almost all of them are GV's.  I can tell you that there was a dramatic change from AH2 to AH3 graphics.  Big change for me in that bird.  Took me months to learn how to find tanks again and it became much tougher track and kill them.  However, the era of the hiding vehicle began.  It could be anywhere within 8 miles of a town, strat or field and flash it.  That is a massive square mile area to search in a high intensity graphic environment.  The GV dar was the compromise for the those who chose to hide.  Not for those who chose to use stealth at a field or NOE for an attack.  This was for the bushmen Elec.  Not the scrappers like you and me.  Correct me if I am wrong but my Pigs fought you and and a bunch of fellas the other night and you guys took the field and there was GV dar.  We knew you were there, fought you folks for it, and yet somehow you took it.  Odd huh?  See you up there.  :aok
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Offline molybdenum

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Re: Suggestion regarding ground radar and spawns
« Reply #52 on: February 24, 2018, 06:20:23 PM »
How’s this for compromise?

Have GVdar pop when the GV is spotted by an opposing player.

If the spotter leaves the area and the GV moves the GVdar will only show the last known area of the GV.

If the spotter stalks the GV the dar will follow the movement of the GV until the GV is dead or the spotter loses interest and leaves the area.


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Interesting in theory, but the devil is in the details.
How would the GV dar generator know when the opposing player has spotted the GV? It would have to be a proximity thing, and I can't count the # of times bad guys have flown right over me (pre GV dar era) and apparently never saw me, even though I was right out in the open. They just headed on out to wherever they were going and let me lay waste to the town I was after once they'd passed. Probably they were on climb-out and afk.
So you'd end up with a misleading GV dar others would see, representing a GV report that never happened.
Clever idea though.

Offline ccvi

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Re: Suggestion regarding ground radar and spawns
« Reply #53 on: February 24, 2018, 06:32:09 PM »
If a GV is hiding well, its more easy to see the GV than the icon - even within icon-range. It seems as if icons are hidden if a certain part (or some arbitrary part?) of the vehicle is concealed. Even if the hull is clearly visible (if you know where it is, after systematically checking every tree) it may still not have the billboard over its heading to announce its presence.

Offline molybdenum

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Re: Suggestion regarding ground radar and spawns
« Reply #54 on: March 04, 2018, 07:26:44 AM »
It's not the sneaking of bases and it's not NOE that's a problem....The reason GV dar is here is because GV's are really HARD to see visually now.  I have over 1,200 kills in a Hurricane IID and almost all of them are GV's.  I can tell you that there was a dramatic change from AH2 to AH3 graphics.  Big change for me in that bird.  Took me months to learn how to find tanks again and it became much tougher track and kill them.  However, the era of the hiding vehicle began.  It could be anywhere within 8 miles of a town, strat or field and flash it.  That is a massive square mile area to search in a high intensity graphic environment.  The GV dar was the compromise for the those who chose to hide.  Not for those who chose to use stealth at a field or NOE for an attack.
Thanks for explaining it from a GV bomber's perspective, that makes sense.
The implementation of the GV dar has had serious side effects, and many players view the cure as being much worse than the disease ever was. Several suggestions have been made on this BB how the dar could be adjusted so as to mitigate those side effects. It would be nice to know if those suggestions have been considered by HT.

Offline JimmyC

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Re: Suggestion regarding ground radar and spawns
« Reply #55 on: March 04, 2018, 01:44:42 PM »
I think the dar should not include spawn areas..just so the gvs can get up and running so to speak
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Offline bustr

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Re: Suggestion regarding ground radar and spawns
« Reply #56 on: March 04, 2018, 03:36:27 PM »
You build the terrain to protect the spawn and the GV's will get up and running. I've been doing that on all of my terrains and it stopped spawn camping which I think is detestable.

I've been experimenting with micro hill texturing across flat ground to kill the spawn camping and create more of a cat and mouse aspect while trying to get at the town or field. There are numerous patterns of micro hills that can be generated to kill the usual monotonous flat ground with trees and grass approaching up to towns. The two agrarian tile sets for the Med tile set are orchards which work on hills, and crops that need flat ground. In the screen shots below I'm using the orchard tile to help protect the spawn from being camped. In the first screen shot you can see just past the town where I was testing a micro hill pattern on two sides of a 500ft deep gorge that a river is running through.


First two are from inside the terrain editor showing the spawn and the micro hills I generated around the town and airfield. You don't need to use L3DT to do this, the AH3 terrain editor has all the tools to do it in minutes. The bite in the kester to it is, no matter if you use L3DT or the terrain editor, you have to spawn and drive your assumption a few times to see the lay of the hills and how you painted trees and grass and decide if it plays well or gives one side or the other's GV's too much of an advantage.

Because those orange tree areas stop tanks and take forever to work your way through, I don't want to over use that tile. I may use it to help funnel tanks but, I listened to too many complaints inside of the arena on terrains that over used that tile around fields. One of the dangers of just quickly painting large areas to get the job done, then not really driving your creation to test for play ability. It's deceptive how long it takes to drive across a few miles of that tile which impacts GV players fun.








These are from inside of the offline game spawned in, you can see the micro hills which the tops have trees and the low areas between are grassy for rapid transit. This texturing can be done to slopes creating small ravines. All of this is limited by the size of the polygon used for the terrain mesh. These micro hills with trees on the tops will be a pain becasue it will favor wirbles hiding from detection while you think you have a defenseless tank to bomb or strafe. When you are on the back sides of these hills, your movements cannot be easily detected by snipers hiding on hills closer to the town or even low flying planes until the are right over the low area. And if you pull up into the trees just before they get over your position, it will PO them trying to find you.








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Offline waystin2

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Re: Suggestion regarding ground radar and spawns
« Reply #57 on: March 05, 2018, 11:08:38 AM »
Thanks for explaining it from a GV bomber's perspective, that makes sense.
The implementation of the GV dar has had serious side effects, and many players view the cure as being much worse than the disease ever was. Several suggestions have been made on this BB how the dar could be adjusted so as to mitigate those side effects. It would be nice to know if those suggestions have been considered by HT.
The Hurricane IID is my choice for breaking tin cans when I am not on the ground, and it does not carry bombs.  It has two 40MM AP cannons and requires close in 400-600 yard single shot steep angle kill shots for success.  So you know if I cannot see them flying that close in, I am not BS'ing that there is a problem with being able to find GV's.  I am rarely taller than 1k as I would not be able to track or find a GV.  I am not up at 3-4k circling looking for crawling dots, I am down at Storch level without the Storch's extended view trying to find, track and kill targets.  Now you know why I think the GV dar adds to the game.
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Offline molybdenum

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Re: Suggestion regarding ground radar and spawns
« Reply #58 on: March 05, 2018, 04:19:01 PM »
The Hurricane IID is my choice for breaking tin cans when I am not on the ground, and it does not carry bombs.  It has two 40MM AP cannons and requires close in 400-600 yard single shot steep angle kill shots for success.  So you know if I cannot see them flying that close in, I am not BS'ing that there is a problem with being able to find GV's.  I am rarely taller than 1k as I would not be able to track or find a GV.  I am not up at 3-4k circling looking for crawling dots, I am down at Storch level without the Storch's extended view trying to find, track and kill targets.  Now you know why I think the GV dar adds to the game.

It certainly adds to the game for you and people like you. It equally certainly detracts from the game for me and people like me.
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Offline Devil 505

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Re: Suggestion regarding ground radar and spawns
« Reply #59 on: March 05, 2018, 04:44:28 PM »
but I am hoping HT figures out a middle ground that is satisfactory to nearly all.

Too bad for you that you don't realize that the GV dar IS the middle ground. Accept this at the truth that it is and move on.
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