I love this game but no other game I play has me tabbing out to fill time in

[Vraciu]

Yup.  Keep banging that victim drum.  People who haven't been around you for that long will believe it for a little while.

Wiley.

You need to come up with a different metaphor.   That one is threadbare. 

People who have been around awhile know the facts.  I was attacked mercilessly by the "in crowd" and decided to finally start giving some of it back to them.  As usual, the referees conveniently miss or ignore the people who started it.   Color me unsurprised.

I enjoy myself on 200.  Most people get it. 

[bustr]

Sixteen years of first ch1 then ch200, both have been exactly the toxic same since I started in 2002. I see today exactly the same garbage I read on ch1 the first day I ever popped into a tower. I've been in all three countries for a minimum of 1-3 years at a time. Same garbage on ch1\ch200 and on range. This is a predominantly a male 8th grade locker room culture becasue it's all anonymous. So 13-65 year old males who know nothing can happen to them, act out who they really wish they could be in public in their real lives. Unless you know this is AH3, it dejavu's 4chan day in and day out.

This very conversation has happened on schedule every year either during the summer doldrums or around Nov-Dec during the holidays. Everyone knows someone who has quit becasue of the toxic culture and everyone with an opinion in the conversation is a paragon of virtue in the game. Just ask them....the only real world christian minister who played our game quit before the end of AH2. The forum tried to lynch mob him for being a minister because he had a predictable principled stance to his comments. Even when he was asked for his professional opinion on a subject.

You want this game, then ignore ch200 and PM's. Half of our community needs them becasue assaulting others anonymously and screaming about what ever is insulting their sense of propriety is half of what they play any game for. Most games have their own versions of these people filling the ranks. Welcome to the real world. It's full of differently wired humans and anonymous avatar games attracts the worst becasue it's free shots at other people with no accountability. Yes some people are very thin skinned and can't ignore them so they quit. Just like in the real world you know people who can't take a joke or, protect themselves from being offended by having a conduct bar so high, very few people can ever be in their company.

The way this game is played has not changed since 2002 and it's been constantly whined about in exactly the same ways with exactly the same dialogues. To me the funny part is the actors have changed but the lines they think are so unique and special to them are verbatim what their predecessors kvetched here in the forums like dejavu. You cannot change human nature in games. You can experiment with the venue to find ways to keep their idle kvetching hands busy instead of pouring that energy into abusing other customers. 

[nrshida]

The dedicated ACM stuff seems to be a niche thing to begin with IMHO,

ACM is a niche activity in a game named Aces High with a famously high-fidelity flight model unrivaled by most other games in the last twenty years?

so why didn`t those dedicated ACM gurus continue to fight against each other?

They did, also. They influenced a sustainable percentage to follow their approach until a tipping point was reached. My overarching point is that the overall value of them was that their philosophy and activity added balance to the game which is now absent.

What I think most of the problem with nrshida's issue is, there's no "official" dueling arena.  You could get the gameplay he's looking for with a private arena.

Respectfully no that isn't it. It's not just an arena that was needed it's that a broader spectrum of players and activities and the culture needed balance. I'm not asking that the game be adjusted or modified to support my preferred gameplay (as indeed someone said I have also observed some do). I'm suggesting that that facet ought to ALSO have been supported / listened to / encouraged / grown with adjustments to the gameplay as a vital and necessary part of Aces High.

For example. When times were hard I used to fly low offshore an enemy base and goad fighters into attacking me while -e. If you killed one he'd come back and bring more with him. Could make a decent living getting fights like that. Then the 88-mm came. Now I'd fly for 20 minutes playing ACM with a sequence of airburst shells, fired by a player from a position of total safety, with his feet up on his desk and a soda in his other hand while I performed like one of those metal ducks at a shooting gallery. Does that sound like a reasonable interchange of gameplay when I put it like that?

The Match Play Arena Mark I was better than the old DA IMHO to get quick 1-on-1s. A competition with prizes was announced and the terrain changed to flat and bland with every airspawn at 10k. The original Mark I MPA used random heights and location all over the old DA, varied & interesting terrain, varied fights. The competitions did not come. The new boring (and faulty) MPA Mark II remains. I reported the persistant bugs a month ago. They also remain.

My experiences / frustrations are in accord with the OP who tabs out through inactivity. Even if those feedbacks are totally irrelevant to you or your present gaming experience, consider the game from the perspective of a new player - pretend you don't know anything. Would it be worth $15 a month? Would it even be worth more than 30 minutes of your time?


http://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,390589.msg5188631.html#msg5188631


Fess and I fly on the same Timezone. Do you think our frustrations are limited to dogfighting or not coming your way? You poor bastards.

[bustr]

This perspective by Nir is worth discussing, still, in the end it's what Hitech thinks, and will or won't do. No one in this audience can do anything for Fess's or Nir's time zone issues. For new players, that is a conversation of it's own.

[molybdenum]

You are complaining about the exact situation the other two sides find themselves in constantly.  For whatever reason, this weekend the Nits decided it was a good idea to start moving mud.  The Rooks decided to get uncharacteristically aggressive too.  The way maps generally tend to be taken is, a side will work on one opponent until they've got enough bases then switch the majority of their forces to the other.  That is how maps are generally won.

And from what I've seen, when the other two sides are occupied against each other, the Bish will attempt to push a front.  If they meet resistance, they switch to the other.  Thereby double-teaming one of the other sides.

Now for some reason the Nits decided to push the bish back so they had way more bases than they needed.  Partly due to the amount of squeaking I'd imagine, partly to do with the fact that when the Bish decide to push a front, they do it quickly and the Nits wanted a buffer.

But you guys spent a good deal of time with a completely inactive front with the Nits while we worked on the Rooks, and were in fact attacking the Rooks for whatever reason.  This happened several times over the course of the weekend.

You were effectively helping us double-team the Rooks.  I am guessing maybe because whoever generally leads the Bish horde wanted the map to roll, or something.  And oddly, very little whining occurred from the Rooks while this was taking place.  Perhaps because they're used to it, as are the Nits, the only difference being the Nits were pushing harder this weekend.

Wiley.

Very accurate in every particular. It was very frustrating for me (a "win the map" guy) to see the bish stop trying to take nit bases when nit resistance made it a challenge and turn on the rooks instead, who were, until that point, fending off the nit onslaught with some measure of success. So the bish achieved Pyrrhic victories vs rooks and basically let the nits win. It made some bish feel better that they were finally taking bases when they'd been reduced to ~50% of their own; and after an initial success or two, the 2xteam vs rooks was in full force.
It's human nature to pursue short term success vs long term results. I emphatically agree with HT that switching from 3 sides to 2 won't work, but this flaw in human nature can perhaps be used for the greater good of the game? Would upping the perk point reward for a win from 25 to 75 make a difference? Make it more rewarding to actually fight a worthy foe instead of beat up on an already beaten-down team?
(I'm not sure that it would, but I unfortunately don't have a better idea to offer).

PS--GV dar is poo, btw.

[The Fugitive]

Very accurate in every particular. It was very frustrating for me (a "win the map" guy) to see the bish stop trying to take nit bases when nit resistance made it a challenge and turn on the rooks instead, who were, until that point, fending off the nit onslaught with some measure of success. So the bish achieved Pyrrhic victories vs rooks and basically let the nits win. It made some bish feel better that they were finally taking bases when they'd been reduced to ~50% of their own; and after an initial success or two, the 2xteam vs rooks was in full force.
It's human nature to pursue short term success vs long term results. I emphatically agree with HT that switching from 3 sides to 2 won't work, but this flaw in human nature can perhaps be used for the greater good of the game? Would upping the perk point reward for a win from 25 to 75 make a difference? Make it more rewarding to actually fight a worthy foe instead of beat up on an already beaten-down team?
(I'm not sure that it would, but I unfortunately don't have a better idea to offer).

PS--GV dar is poo, btw.

Im sure there are a number of things that COULD be done to guide play.

Once your team has 30% of another team they can no longer get bases from that team. It would force the team to switch to the other front.  This takes away the "hammering a team to nothing" attitude, brings the fight to the other team so they have someone to fight, breaks the mentality of "going for the easy bases".

Local ENY. Its been suggested before. How hard could it be to implement? They already pull the "local" numbers to get the dar bar. It would cut back on the hordes of uber rides, spread out the fronts for those that MUST have their uber ride and so create more points of combat.

I understand the idea of an open sandbox, but if you dont want the kids digging big holes, dont give them big shovels!. Human nature has twisted the game, adjustments in code can guide gameplay back to a level where more people are happy to play.

[1stpar3]

Im sure there are a number of things that COULD be done to guide play.

Once your team has 30% of another team they can no longer get bases from that team. It would force the team to switch to the other front.  This takes away the "hammering a team to nothing" attitude, brings the fight to the other team so they have someone to fight, breaks the mentality of "going for the easy bases".

Local ENY. Its been suggested before. How hard could it be to implement? They already pull the "local" numbers to get the dar bar. It would cut back on the hordes of uber rides, spread out the fronts for those that MUST have their uber ride and so create more points of combat.

I understand the idea of an open sandbox, but if you dont want the kids digging big holes, dont give them big shovels!. Human nature has twisted the game, adjustments in code can guide gameplay back to a level where more people are happy to play.

Your first idea... I could go with that! It would also stop the logging out of frustration(well for those that it bothers). Sure couldnt hurt to try it for a tour or so. Second Idea...that too would work but seems that could be a pain to code..
  I have one as well....What IF ENY was attached to Down times, or maybe "Auto gun" lethality? That could go along way in stopping the steam roll against the underdog...maybe. This would stop the "I cant fly my plane" as well. Not saying make aaa a sniper thing, just adjusted as a stop gap measure. With maybe downtimes too...would ease the pain from having every thing porked,if you are the under dog.Would definitely keep the porkers in the air long enough to get a defender or 2 into the fight?  Again...how hard would that be, NO IDEA. Just dislike any one of us getting so frustrated that they leave. Well, without trying to help anyway...it wont please every body but like the GV dar...it was a trial...and worked...implemented. 

[Shuffler]

If the idea was to make a fight, it could be done. When numbers are low simply make certain bases on the front capturable during a time span. This will change to other bases after a certain amount of time. This would funnel folks into an area to fight.

Now that creates another issue. There are those who do not wish to fight and only wish to capture/sneak undefended bases.

At one point it seems you have to decide which way do you want the game to go. Which way adds to the game?

I have been away so long I just want to get my gear back out of storage and set up. I hope there are those still willing to fight my old rusty P 38. I should be more like a noob after almost a year off. Not that I didn't spread more than my share of 38 parts to begin with.

[Oldman731]

Now that creates another issue. There are those who do not wish to fight and only wish to capture/sneak undefended bases.

At one point it seems you have to decide which way do you want the game to go. Which way adds to the game?

AH always has had that tension.  It's AW predecessor offered no rewards for winning territory (don't know about WB), so there was little incentive to do so.  In this game (or sim...another argument) we've enjoyed the benefit of an increased player base, resulting from attracting the war-winning crowd.  I've never been part of that sport, so I offer no wisdom on whether things are better or worse than before.  The increase in the GV players could well be caused by the technological improvements of that side of the game.  The few tanks here in 2001 were pretty basic.  More important, the younger players we have now weren't brought up in WWII aviation lore the way we geezers were.

- oldman

[Vraciu]

AH always has had that tension.  It's AW predecessor offered no rewards for winning territory (don't know about WB), so there was little incentive to do so.  In this game (or sim...another argument) we've enjoyed the benefit of an increased player base, resulting from attracting the war-winning crowd.  I've never been part of that sport, so I offer no wisdom on whether things are better or worse than before.  The increase in the GV players could well be caused by the technological improvements of that side of the game.  The few tanks here in 2001 were pretty basic.  More important, the younger players we have now weren't brought up in WWII aviation lore the way we geezers were.

- oldman

WB had a two-sided war requiring total victory.  You could see the fronts moving on the map with the ebb and flow.  It was really fun.   It was dynamic and generated fights organically.   

[Zoney]

You need to come up with a different metaphor.   That one is threadbare. 

People who have been around awhile know the facts.  I was attacked mercilessly by the "in crowd" and decided to finally start giving some of it back to them.  As usual, the referees conveniently miss or ignore the people who started it.   Color me unsurprised.

I enjoy myself on 200 at the expense of others.  Most people get it.

fixed

[Zoney]

I don't like the public score in Match.  I went in there the other day to goof off and practice with another guy.  It wasn't a duel so my losing 100-22 didn't matter to either of us.  But damn if someone didn't start mocking me about it on 200.  I will never go in there again without a truly anonymous free account.  I don't need that junk.

And here is an example of why you should cool your jets on 200 Vraciu.  You didn't like it either.  I'm pretty sure you're a good guy mate.  Please refer to my personal #1 question when playing.  Are you making the game better or worse?  There should be no confusion about what that means, if there is, just go back and read this post of your I quoted and remember how that made your game experience worse.

[Vraciu]

And here is an example of why you should cool your jets on 200 Vraciu.  You didn't like it either.  I'm pretty sure you're a good guy mate.  Please refer to my personal #1 question when playing.  Are you making the game better or worse?  There should be no confusion about what that means, if there is, just go back and read this post of your I quoted and remember how that made your game experience worse.

Nonsense. 


Unprovoked attacks are not justified.   Those who excuse it are part of the problem.  I neither like nor dislike it coming at me.  I'm a big boy.   I simply said I don't need it and cited it as an example of what's wrong with the Match Play Arena (because it carries over to the Melee).

I conduct myself just fine on 200.  I'm to the point I don't even fire back much any more.  Don't care.  Squelch is my friend.

If you don't like my banter kindly ignore it. 

I don't like jerks—nobody does—and 200 is littered with people who are a whole lot better with a keyboard than a trigger.   They're bad for the game.

Do they affect my life?   Do I really care what they think of me?  Not so much.  Why would I?  But new players trying to learn will not respond well to similar treatment, so this should be addressed.  The persistent, publicly-accessible scoring system in that arena is not ideal, IMHO, and I pointed this out soon after it opened.  YMMV.

And yes, I am a good guy.  It's amazing how soon people forget.   Some players you help as noobs gravitate later toward a certain crowd and before you know it they're trashing you on 200 in a misguided attempt to look cool.  It's an odd dynamic.

Some take this game WAY too personally. 

[TWCAxew]

*Snip* I decided I stay out of this.

DutchVII

[Wiley]

*Snip* I decided I stay out of this.

DutchVII

Always the best choice. 

Wiley.