Radar Testing

[DmonSlyr]

Full dar is not the answer. I think it's as simple as making radar harder to destroy on the base. It's literally the first object kamakazies in AH destroy when they are attack a base. They don't care about dying and easily destroy the Dar, thus making it hard for new players to see the fighters on the map. Once they begin to understand the game better, they will understand the dar bar better. Late at night it's very hard to tell how many players are at a base by just seeing a 3/10th dar bar. That makes it hard for me to decide if I want to spend at least 15-30 minutes on another run. 

As for the tank radar. I don't really play tanks. It's hard for me to determine what is best, but I will say that new players would probably have no idea how to find tank battles looking at a bunch of flashing bases. I think the tank dar is a good idea in this regard, but I don't think it should Pin Point where the enemy tank(s) are.

The problem with an enemy dar that's so easy to take down is that when players log, they only see flashing bases and a dar bar. If new players don't understand the dar bar right away. They will only see flashing bases and not really understand how to find the best area of the map to fly in.

[waystin2]

My thought exactly.  Amazing how many are breaking out in monkey bites.

This made me spit coffee!   

[The Fugitive]

I never understood why ,instead of the GV locator dar we have HTC didn't just add another dar BAR to indicate GVs in the sector.

I can see the appeal of seeing icons all over the place to attract attention,  but maybe turn the dar bars to plane and vehicle representations to indicate the action. This would still give the little bit of the "fog of war" and allow the hunters to hunt, and the hiders some invisibility .

[scott66]

It has been interesting to watch the reactions and responses to this thread. I would suspect that Hitech has the data he was looking for by now, personally while I don't care for the Full Dar setup, I support Hitech in his attempt to revive AH3. It is 'his" game and livelihood, thus I am sure he is doing what he feels best.

It is interesting to note the biggest supporters of the Full Dar, are the anti-gv'ers. Without gv's this game will wither and die, without Fighter aircraft this game will wither and die, same for Bombers. We need each other to keep this game healthy and to help it grow.

haven't you heard kenai? It's called Aces high not Aces low

[Wiley]

I never understood why ,instead of the GV locator dar we have HTC didn't just add another dar BAR to indicate GVs in the sector.

I can see the appeal of seeing icons all over the place to attract attention,  but maybe turn the dar bars to plane and vehicle representations to indicate the action. This would still give the little bit of the "fog of war" and allow the hunters to hunt, and the hiders some invisibility .

People and bardar is a funny thing.  I've seen multiple times, someone (quite often me) will call out that there's a mission launching from enemy field x.  People will completely ignore those calls until 10 minutes later they break friendly dar at altitude, then nobody shows up or they complain about getting vulched.  Do that many people simply not understand bardar?  Would it really be as simple as putting a little plane beside the bar?

Wiley.

[The Fugitive]

Another thought,  what if HTC changed the login screen. Instead of logging in to the tower a new "HQ" scene is made. here you see a large map on the wall showing the all radar view we have these days as tested. Maybe a ticket running across the bottom of the screen call your attention to the active bases.

double clicking the base moves you to the tower of that base where you can start your mission where the radar is more like what we are use to.this way new players loggin in will get a better idea of where the action is. yes I know logging out and then back in again will give you that info fresh but would that be abused?  I dont know. We need a way for the new players to "find the action" with out taking all of the strategic side of the game away.

[Shuffler]

Another thought,  what if HTC changed the login screen. Instead of logging in to the tower a new "HQ" scene is made. here you see a large map on the wall showing the all radar view we have these days as tested. Maybe a ticket running across the bottom of the screen call your attention to the active bases.

double clicking the base moves you to the tower of that base where you can start your mission where the radar is more like what we are use to.this way new players loggin in will get a better idea of where the action is. yes I know logging out and then back in again will give you that info fresh but would that be abused?  I dont know. We need a way for the new players to "find the action" with out taking all of the strategic side of the game away.

Ah constructive thinking. Possibly giving the 2 weeker full dar while learning the ropes.

[Lusche]

People and bardar is a funny thing.  I've seen multiple times, someone (quite often me) will call out that there's a mission launching from enemy field x.  People will completely ignore those calls until 10 minutes later they break friendly dar at altitude, then nobody shows up or they complain about getting vulched.  Do that many people simply not understand bardar?  Would it really be as simple as putting a little plane beside the bar?

Wiley.

In my experience, many players seem to be only listening to their squad channel and watching the map zoomed in on their location, if at all.
Countless times I have called out enemy strat missions for 20+ minutes, only to have the country channel to explode with "ALERT AXX!!" and players spawning Wirbels en masse when said raid finally comes through a friendly dar at 27k on their way to the target... 

[bustr]

After watching this every night so far I've noticed something interesting. I thought it would make air combat players more aggressive becasue they could see everything. Instead the GV players have become more aggressive along with more showing up at spawns "together" than the onesies, twosies back when they could sneak and hide. Reminiscent of the AH2 suicide spawn fights where both sides would have tanks in numbers while bombers and fighters tried to get lucky feeding themselves to wirbles and osties. I mean feeding themselves to the flak wagons specifically becasue they think the red tank icon means they will see them in time. I thought it would be easy and lost a panther becasue that red tank icon does not mean carte blanche for the defenders. The attackers have your same advantage.     

The fighter players, even showing up in numbers, move around the combat space like they are worried they can be seen and their best moves for many, pick, HO and run, have been foiled. When radar could be taken out and a field blinded, there was a lot more aggressive activity(picking), I will assume to the mental state of security that engendered. I'm hearing comments now like, make one ACM move to counter and you end up having to chase people while they have numbers. I'm seeing bombers get chewed up but, my hat's off to those with the stones to fly in spite of the radar. And they still make it over the target. With radar like this, getting through and taking out the vHanger is now a crippling blow to taking a field. Also timing your M3 with troops to bombers dropping the town instead of waiting to be killed works for captures. Several moving M3 are a bite to stop.

I did not realize how many fighter players were using radar as a crutch and their tool box of technique depended on it. And I thought GVers would close up shop and tell Hitech to pound sand. Right now I'm reminded of combat in AH2 if anything.   

[Vraciu]

It has been interesting to watch the reactions and responses to this thread. I would suspect that Hitech has the data he was looking for by now, personally while I don't care for the Full Dar setup, I support Hitech in his attempt to revive AH3. It is 'his" game and livelihood, thus I am sure he is doing what he feels best.

It is interesting to note the biggest supporters of the Full Dar, are the anti-gv'ers. Without gv's this game will wither and die, without Fighter aircraft this game will wither and die, same for Bombers. We need each other to keep this game healthy and to help it grow.

I am not anti-GV.    But when you incentivize hiding and avoiding combat you'll get just that.   GV folks want stealth-mode seal clubbing. 

[Vraciu]

Full dar is not the answer. I think it's as simple as making radar harder to destroy on the base. It's literally the first object kamakazies in AH destroy when they are attack a base. They don't care about dying and easily destroy the Dar, thus making it hard for new players to see the fighters on the map. Once they begin to understand the game better, they will understand the dar bar better. Late at night it's very hard to tell how many players are at a base by just seeing a 3/10th dar bar. That makes it hard for me to decide if I want to spend at least 15-30 minutes on another run. 

As for the tank radar. I don't really play tanks. It's hard for me to determine what is best, but I will say that new players would probably have no idea how to find tank battles looking at a bunch of flashing bases. I think the tank dar is a good idea in this regard, but I don't think it should Pin Point where the enemy tank(s) are.

The problem with an enemy dar that's so easy to take down is that when players log, they only see flashing bases and a dar bar. If new players don't understand the dar bar right away. They will only see flashing bases and not really understand how to find the best area of the map to fly in.

New players don't stay long enough to see how dar bars work.   

Perhaps a tower snapshot radar for non-coverage areas every X minutes would be a good compromise.

[Vraciu]

Another thought,  what if HTC changed the login screen. Instead of logging in to the tower a new "HQ" scene is made. here you see a large map on the wall showing the all radar view we have these days as tested. Maybe a ticket running across the bottom of the screen call your attention to the active bases.

double clicking the base moves you to the tower of that base where you can start your mission where the radar is more like what we are use to.this way new players loggin in will get a better idea of where the action is. yes I know logging out and then back in again will give you that info fresh but would that be abused?  I dont know. We need a way for the new players to "find the action" with out taking all of the strategic side of the game away.

I had a similar thought of an overview map with snapshots of action every few minutes.   Think of MIDWAY or BATTLE OF BRITAIN with those charts and models they used to update Intel reports for planners to see. 

[Vraciu]

After watching this every night so far I've noticed something interesting. I thought it would make air combat players more aggressive becasue they could see everything. Instead the GV players have become more aggressive along with more showing up at spawns "together" than the onesies, twosies back when they could sneak and hide. Reminiscent of the AH2 suicide spawn fights where both sides would have tanks in numbers while bombers and fighters tried to get lucky feeding themselves to wirbles and osties. I mean feeding themselves to the flak wagons specifically becasue they think the red tank icon means they will see them in time. I thought it would be easy and lost a panther becasue that red tank icon does not mean carte blanche for the defenders. The attackers have your same advantage.     

The fighter players, even showing up in numbers, move around the combat space like they are worried they can be seen and their best moves for many, pick, HO and run, have been foiled. When radar could be taken out and a field blinded, there was a lot more aggressive activity(picking), I will assume to the mental state of security that engendered. I'm hearing comments now like, make one ACM move to counter and you end up having to chase people while they have numbers. I'm seeing bombers get chewed up but, my hat's off to those with the stones to fly in spite of the radar. And they still make it over the target. With radar like this, getting through and taking out the vHanger is now a crippling blow to taking a field. Also timing your M3 with troops to bombers dropping the town instead of waiting to be killed works for captures. Several moving M3 are a bite to stop.

I did not realize how many fighter players were using radar as a crutch and their tool box of technique depended on it. And I thought GVers would close up shop and tell Hitech to pound sand. Right now I'm reminded of combat in AH2 if anything.   

I am way more aggresive now because I know I can find a fight quickly after I get shot down.  Whereas before I had to tanker gas and loiter until I could find someone. 

[DmonSlyr]

New players don't stay long enough to see how dar bars work.   

Perhaps a tower snapshot radar for non-coverage areas every X minutes would be a good compromise.

Yeah, so imagine all of these players entering an arena with a bunch of flashing bases who don't know what to do or where to roll to find a fight. That's what makes it challenging. That's why I think the best solution is to just make Radar harder to destroy, so that dots show up near the bases for longer. I still like the circle radar where dots don't show up until they enter the circle.

[JimmyD3]

I am not anti-GV.    But when you incentivize hiding and avoiding combat you'll get just that.   GV folks want stealth-mode seal clubbing.

Sorry V, if it walks like a duck and quacks like a duck, it must be a duck.