Lt. Glenn W. Loucks - P-51D "Bloody Rebel!" (5B-S) - 364th FG 385th FS

[Guppy35]

I would do that. If the D-5's are not 364th GF, then they are irrelevant despite having the same squadron code - as bizarre as that is.

They also carried codes that match 355th FG planes.  They were not attached to either although some of the pilots did come from those groups.  They also were converted bomber guys flying them.

[Guppy35]

Also understand that Fencer did the markings based on the profile of the plane I did before I realized the stripes were incorrect.

That's where the info came from.  The stripes are as I did them, incorrectly

Shows how the web works.  Someone took the markings right off my profile and made graphics for this plane.  I didn't use the correct swastikas because of the game.  Note the thief followed my lead   Screwed up by having the art on both sides however.  Fond on the tail is the same too

https://callie-graphics.com/products/p-51-bloody-rebel

[Vraciu]

^^^^^^ Funny stuff.  I actually saved those graphics as a potential reference.  Lol.

They also carried codes that match 355th FG planes.  They were not attached to either although some of the pilots did come from those groups.  They also were converted bomber guys flying them.

I am reading in one spot that the 1SFX used 5E.   Another place says they used underlined versions of the main code letters YF, OS, and WR (355th FG).

It SEEMS though, that they inherited some 364th airplanes based on some crackup photos.   Still, this could just be confusion.   It’s amazing how many 5E photos cover up the exact spot I want to see.     

[Guppy35]

^^^^^^ Funny stuff.  I actually saved those graphics as a potential reference.  Lol.



I am reading in one spot that the 1SFX used 5E.   Another place says they used underlined versions of the main code letters YF, OS, and WR (355th FG).

It SEEMS though, that they inherited some 364th airplanes based on some crackup photos.   Still, this could just be confusion.   It’s amazing how many 5E photos cover up the exact spot I want to see.     

A 1st SF 51 from my collection.  9H.  Go figure

[Vraciu]

A 1st SF 51 from my collection.  9H.  Go figure

http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/1SFMustang_zpsjvq9auip.jpg[/img]

Facepalm. 

[Vraciu]

So let's drill down again.

They obviously inherited planes. 

One of the D-5s they inherited is a former 5E and has the raised stripes.

I'm doing a 5E D-5. 

We don't see a possible correlation?

I better save a copy of this version before I wipe out the stripes in case we change our collective mind here. 

[Guppy35]

This is my wallpaper.  Also a photo from my collection.  End of the war, P51K "Kitty Blue Eyes". Note no stripes of any kind as they'd all been gotten rid of by that time.  Next up were the aircraft letters painted on the underside of the wings once the war was over and the guys started getting in trouble for buzzing people out of boredom

That scenario where I had the 364th really got me going on them.  I've collected photos, gathered the histories etc ever since. 

[Guppy35]

So let's drill down again.

They obviously inherited planes. 

One of the D-5s they inherited is a former 5E and has the raised stripes.

I'm doing a 5E D-5. 

We don't see a possible correlation?

I better save a copy of this version before I wipe out the stripes in case we change our collective mind here.

All photo evidence of 364th kites show the stripes as I described them.  The only thing showing the raised stripes was my profile that Fencer used to do the skin.  1st SF kites are not 364th birds and are not evidence of that type of painted stripes on combat 364th 51s.

Go with the 364th photo evidence.  Quit being distracted by the 1st SF birds with 5E codes.

[Vraciu]

All photo evidence of 364th kites show the stripes as I described them.  The only thing showing the raised stripes was my profile that Fencer used to do the skin.  1st SF kites are not 364th birds and are not evidence of that type of painted stripes on combat 364th 51s.

Go with the 364th photo evidence.  Quit being distracted by the 1st SF birds with 5E codes.

How can they NOT be (former) 364th airplanes?   

I am precisely distracted because this is a mystery in need of an explanation.   

Exceptions prove rules.   

The airplane I am skinning is a P-51D-5-NA.  What would a P-51D-5-NA look like with the 364th, specifically 5E?   

SOMEWHERE there has to be an explanation.   

[Vraciu]

This is my wallpaper.  Also a photo from my collection.  End of the war, P51K "Kitty Blue Eyes". Note no stripes of any kind as they'd all been gotten rid of by that time.  Next up were the aircraft letters painted on the underside of the wings once the war was over and the guys started getting in trouble for buzzing people out of boredom

That scenario where I had the 364th really got me going on them.  I've collected photos, gathered the histories etc ever since. 


http://i152.photobucket.com/albums/s199/guppy35/P51K2_zpshksp9nzd.jpg[/img]

I have lots of 5E photos with no stripes on the fuselage.   None are D-5s best I can recall.

[Vraciu]

http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/groups/scouting-force/?offset=0&pageNum=1

Listing of SF airplanes.   I saw one for 364th earlier which helped me track down the MACR for Lt. Loucks.

http://www.littlefriends.co.uk/groups/364th-fighter-group/?offset=150&pageNum=4

A little cross reference exercise.   Not so easy with so many missing details...

364FG Summary:
44-   P-51D   384   5Y-   O'Connor   Capt. Frederick T (to 1SF)   Mary Honey   
Named for Highschool sweetheart - later Mrs O'Connor

1SF Summary:
44-   P-51D   1SF   -   O'Connor   Capt. Frederick T (ex 364 F/G)   Mary Honey 
Named for future Wife   



1SF call letters listed as N2 5Y 5E (Honington)

Callsign:
Buckeye (Honnington)
Cavarly (Basingbourn)

Assigned aircraft:

http://usafunithistory.com/PDF/1-4/1%20SCOUTING%20FORCE.pdf

[Vraciu]

385th FS...odd striping...




Nose markings still 385th FS...

[Vraciu]

Mustang in background has markings for 385th FS...note stripe height.  (I cannot tell.)

Plane in foreground has 5E code AND YF code.   

[Vraciu]

Ex-364th airplane assigned to 1st SF.  Markings unchanged. 


364th Listing Says:
44-11567   P-51K   384   5Y-P         Dana Kay


1SF Listing Says:
44-11567   P-51K   1SF   5Y-P   Dana Kay   Crash landed 15 Jan 45 - Lt. Wayne O Fox   

So the 5E markings must correlate to ex-385th aircraft...


https://www.americanairmuseum.com/media/30360

“Like many other 'Mustangs' of the 364th FG, P-51K 44-11567 ‘Dana Kay’ appears to have migrated to the 1st Scouting Force. Originally assigned to the 384th Ftr Sq (coded 5Y-P), she suffered this landing accident 15 January 1945 at the hands of Lt Wayne O. Fox.”

[Greebo]

Nice skin Vraciu, looks just right.

The nose art is a copy of pin up art originally painted by the Peruvian artist Joaquin Alberto Vargas y Chávez. His pin up girl art became very popular in the USA in 1940 and his work was used as nose art on a huge number of Allied planes during the war. So its likely there were lots of aircraft using the same pin up as this aircraft. There is a site for Vargas' art here. Its handy sometimes as a second source if the photo of the aircraft isn't good enough to reproduce the  nose art directly.