Author Topic: What will it take? (for HT)  (Read 21042 times)

Offline nrshida

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Re: What will it take? (for HT)
« Reply #60 on: September 04, 2018, 09:29:08 PM »
Our capture the flag game appeals to people who like working with others to achieve goals as a team while mitigating personal risk by being part of a group. Coexisting with that in the same arena are solo players who like to take risks to achieve personal goals and glory.


Apart from the last word, which is your typical missing the point while being condescending at the same time, I agree this is a sound analysis of the actual game balance / dynamic of Aces High. Where our views differ, I suspect, is you think the solution lies in separating the two 'groups' as you perceive them (I perceive a spectrum, but let's go with your split). I begin to suspect your MA map-making goal might have been to isollate the ACM-sharks from the CTF - reading between the lines (which is necessary for obvious reasons).

When Aces High had a nice gameplay flow for everyone, was when the maps have a large and central area (3 countries present) and sufficient periphery where both game activities could coexist in the same arena. The map we had earlier today has it to a small extent with its Tank Town. There was a better AH2 map with the large central Tank Town. There were many GV bases and any capture of those invited a lot of mixed action. I'm not sure, but i think there were no 88-mm there. I can't remember its name. The water was a vital and useful feature - a soft boundary.

This sort of terrain made for a nice blend of gameplay, a graduated scale of greys from black to white which also tolerated the 24-hour flux of numbers very well. Even this morning there was some great dogfighting with 3-7 players while the other 6-20 base-capture machine players coexisted. At one point there was an excellent mixture of both when one of the airbases was captured.

Separating to ACM-sharks into their own separate tank will demonstrably not work and you don't know why. It's not because they want to predate on the weaker players in an unfair way as you continually assume, it's because 30-45 minutes of Match Play or furballing in a private arena gives you 5 hours-worth of 'AH fix' in the MA environment, so you log and do something else.

For the good of the game it's better to have a slow burn of risk reward and ENCOURAGE ALL STYLES OF PLAY IN THE SAME ARENA (or several of those as we used to have). Get rid of either style of gameplay and the game has big problems. Get rid of the capture the flag players and you lose the 24-7 MMOG, and get rid of the ACM-sharks and you end up with an esoteric & unapproachable grinding machine from the perspective of new players. Which is essentially what we have now for at least the 1/3rd of the 24-7 MMOG I get to play in.


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Offline bustr

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Re: What will it take? (for HT)
« Reply #61 on: September 04, 2018, 10:55:43 PM »
No, the age and demographic issue is the 900lb gorilla in the room no one will touch.

If players are coming from Steam and only staying 10 minutes, that is long enough listening on VOX to not want to play this game with their fathers and grandfathers. We don't cater to millennial hipsters and iGen's who want a Fortnite environment without grandpa on VOX talking in Texan or bubba. We have a few eclectics like yourself Nirshida and you are an exception 9 years after the collapse in 2009. Today, we have two generations, iGen and millennial that don't equate doing fun and exciting things with old or bubba sounding people. Predominately that is what you hear in the MA casually listening in the tower. A bunch of older guys having older guy fun with a lot of them speaking bubba. Sometimes it sounds like a truck stop outside of Tulsa Oaklahoma. Tonight's MA free perk plane experiment was a blast but, this game cannot be changed to free everything all the time on the hopes it will attract a younger short attention span demographic. Honestly free everything would become boring 262's are us, the side switch part every 30 minutes, maybe, the 125ft minimum radar yes.

Most of the people paying to play this game are older and speak bubba. So how do you reach iGen, Millennial, and baby boomer bubbas if the hipsters and Fortnite addicts can't stand listening to us on VOX and don't want to play games with their parents? We are not going away and if you could get rid of us, the doors would close in Keller Texas. You need to understand that 900lb gorilla to solve bringing in new subscriptions.

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Offline nrshida

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Re: What will it take? (for HT)
« Reply #62 on: September 05, 2018, 03:44:52 AM »
We have a few eclectics like yourself Nirshida and you are an exception 9 years after the collapse in 2009.

Not sure if just been insulted  :D


Today, we have two generations, iGen and millennial that don't equate doing fun and exciting things with old or bubba sounding people. Predominately that is what you hear in the MA casually listening in the tower. A bunch of older guys having older guy fun with a lot of them speaking bubba.

It's a very valid point you make. I am not American and do not discern the subtlety so much. Then if this is so, the game is utterly doomed and it is better experientially for those left to stop medling with gameplay and perhaps increase the subscription so it lasts a bit longer.


We are not going away

But you are. Red Queen principal.


Let's take JoBravo as a data point. I don't know if he's a iGen or a millennial or a hipster, I tend to categarize less and take people as I find them. A decent chap as I see him. I've been flying with him a bit (same Timezone) and he's in my WhatsApp list of AH players. Mad about flying, mad-skills when it comes to learning. Hoping I'm not speaking out of school but I can tell you in the last two weeks he's also downloaded and tried a few other sims because of lack of fighter action. He's also been mercilessly roasted on at least two screenshots I've seen by your bubba-speaking gorillas simply because he out-flew them. This bothered him. He is - after all - just playing the game. This is the worst bit I perceive, your Bubbas DO NOT WANT NEW PLAYERS.

The forum is now replete with bubbas threatening to leave the game because they don't like changes (any changes it seems) as HTC tries to make the game attractive to a new influx. Look at this forum. No more ACM threads, no more serious propositions about new planes, no philosophy beyond the prevailing one that the game is unhealthy and dying. But don't dare change it, I like it this way. If I sniffed this with a $15 subscription I'd look elsewhere too. It smells like death, let's not mince words.


I'm in the innovation area by education and trade. HTC has existed in a conservative domain for a long time but this is now over and innovation - something new - is the only way out of this shrinking pool (if indeed HTC even want to do it).

I'd even suggest at this stage a splintering of the game. Build on AH's excellent flight model, which is right in that sweet spot of realism / OCD authenticity (like DCS) and either start right now on Aces High 4 or make a simpler splinter, smaller game like a HTC version of MiG Alley or a Reno Air Race offshoot or a modify your own fighter in a Reno Air Combat league fight-for-prizes thing or anything which can be ideated to hook new players into the HTC world / flight model. It is - without exageration - an asset. Explore different payment models too. Concurrently I'd run the AH3 MA, or even roll back the gameplay to AH2 to try and pull some of the old players back to fill the gap and remove the development load. Aces High Classic. At least Nuget contributed an evocative name.

Like I say, HTC might even be considering an exit strategy themselves at this point. Some of those (quick and dirty dashed out) ideas wouldn't be much work than new arenas and some repackaging. I even heard once they had a Sabre and MiG already modelled but there might not be the desire to try.

If there is then they need some new people / ideas. Get Lusche involved, get Ack-Ack involved (if his contract allows), consult with a UX designer etc... I'd even help ideate although I already did my limit of free consultancy work for HTC  :)



« Last Edit: September 05, 2018, 03:46:51 AM by nrshida »
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Offline nrshida

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Re: What will it take? (for HT)
« Reply #63 on: September 05, 2018, 03:50:28 AM »
Also, finally a productive topic / discussion. Even I managed to stay on topic and not get too personal. Skuzzy must shed a tear when he reads this  :rofl

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Offline nugetx

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Re: What will it take? (for HT)
« Reply #64 on: September 05, 2018, 05:48:04 AM »
Quote
So how do you reach iGen, Millennial, and baby boomer bubbas if the hipsters and Fortnite addicts can't stand listening to us on VOX and don't want to play games with their parents? We are not going away and if you could get rid of us, the doors would close in Keller Texas. You need to understand that 900lb gorilla to solve bringing in new subscriptions.

Bustr it's not as much about the new demographic but about the old demographic.

Instead of trying to catering to fortnite players, bring back old AH so old timers will come back - the game changed so much since AH 1, that players that were here playing AH 1, don't want to play 'AH the gv war'.

Offline Litjan

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Re: What will it take? (for HT)
« Reply #65 on: September 05, 2018, 10:19:46 AM »
I think I count as one of "those who left 2009". My reasons back then were simply feeling a lack of purpose. Same old, same old. I was waiting for "combat tour", which never materialized. Hoping for more historical gameplay, etc. Saw how numbers in early war/mid war/AvA arenas dwindled. Just getting tired of being raped by La7īs and Nikis back then, trying to fly in a "realistic way" like real WW2 pilots would have flown.

Why am I back now? Well, the advent of VR is certainly the biggest reason. Itīs just very cool to fly and fight in VR. The updated graphics engine is reason #2. The third one is me reaching an age where I look back in melancholy to things I did when I was young (like play Aces High!) and unlike some other things (cough) I can still do this and compete! It doesnīt require crazy reflexes and the gameplay feels mature and sophisticated. It rewards experience and smart thinking. I like that at my age.

People get tired of games eventually, especially younger ones that move with their peer groups. Playing Battlefield for a while, then World of Tanks, finally Fortnight - the next craze will surely come!
Aces High is different and a way of living for a lot of people, there are names you see in the arena EVERY DAY for hours and hours!  I bet a lot of the players are retired, having nothing else to do and it keeps them mentally and socially engaged! In a way this is like my fitness center during the mornings - average age is 60+, but the folks love to be there for the company, having a sense of purpose and something to do.

So what does HT want to do? Keep catering to the old folks? I think this is not viable, because unlike the fitness club (where old timers are driven by their aching bodies and the desire to stay healtyh), there is little infusion of "new old people" here. The people now playing got introduced to Aces High when they were still young and the game was competitive with its contemporary competition. People at that age NOW are used to "modern" games - quickly rewarding, easy to learn, casual and with a strong "carrot" system that makes them yearn for the next level.

So here we are - a bunch of old-timers slowly fading away. We donīt like change, we glorify the "past" (did you see that thread with screenshots of AH2 and people raving how those were the good old times?), we are getting stubborn and inflexible. The target group for replenishing (or even growing!) the population is "young old people", maybe in their 30s. They need to have an affinity to flying (no one plays this game JUST for the GV game, its just too bad for that), history, need to be frustration tolerant, willing to learn an outdated UI, go without tailored instruction or a set purpose and be able and willing to invest time and money into Aces High.

I work as a captain for an airline, flying A320s. I make it a point to mention (without getting on their nerves, I hope) Aces High and how much fun it is to me to all of my first officers, young men in their 30s. Some ask some questions, but when I mention the requirements (hardware) and payment model, their eyes glaze over.

We are approaching the level of players where this game will just implode, going below the critical mass. Already it is not playable during european daytime, with numbers <50 (and only 20 of them in the air) most of the time. I can fly bombers unopposed offline just fine as well, thank you.

In my opinion, its do or die for HT. We heard a lot of good and also bad ideas in this thread already, but in my opinion he needs to look at the contemporary gaming market and what makes persistant games successful or not. Payment model, ease of access, in-game reward system and hardware requirements is where "we" are totally lacking behind the competition, in my opinion.

Cheers, Litjan



Offline Shuffler

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Re: What will it take? (for HT)
« Reply #66 on: September 05, 2018, 05:02:29 PM »
Also, finally a productive topic / discussion. Even I managed to stay on topic and not get too personal. Skuzzy must shed a tear when he reads this  :rofl

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Offline 1stpar3

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Re: What will it take? (for HT)
« Reply #67 on: September 05, 2018, 10:19:33 PM »
JOBRAVO :aok I love that GUY! I call him the MALTESE LEACH :rock Hes hard to get rid of..once hes on you :x  Guy is a sponge..soaks it in and then kills you with it :furious :rofl Some of the most fun I have had in months. I am not a bit surprised that he gets ROASTED(PMs or straight out)..hes DAMN GOOD! Seen it before and have written about it here. THIS is the type we NEED and some just cant see past their egos. Its a shame really. I have NO IDEA what all the hubub is about with this game...is it dying,is it stagnant...no idea....its NEW TO ME and I love it :rock I have no long recorded memory of playing a game like this..to me...this is heaven. DCS is a far more complicated game, fun in its own rite..but as PURE ENJOYMENT a far second to AH,IMO. Warthunder....ok...ARCADE-ISH(being nice)..but ok to kill time in. Just no where NEAR DCS or AH, for me. Its getting to know folk LIKE JOBRAVO,Dutch Weiser and Scott66, among most others...especially my Squad mates, that keep me here day after day. I have said it before and will again...this GAME and the GUYS who play it...kept me going..LITERALLY. When I found it..I was looking for a way out. Depression and disability had me in a dark place. Its sounds stupid I know...I would like to think that I would have been stronger than that. I just dont know, I found this and never looked back. I dont know how to make this game grow...wish it would! I missed those super populated arena times. That would be awesome,indeed. I just see a lot of cross talk  and folk joining sides on an argument over styles and what would be best. Just listen to each other, with an open mind. Its all I ask...dont make it personal. I know this isnt a democracy,as none of us have any say really,in where this game goes...but IT WILL TAKE ALL OF US..to keep it going. I can see points from each side, and wont join a side. I just love this game and those who play it. I kind of like having you guys around  :salute
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Offline nrshida

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Re: What will it take? (for HT)
« Reply #68 on: September 06, 2018, 12:20:30 AM »
JOBRAVO :aok I love that GUY! I call him the MALTESE LEACH

Maltese Falcon.  :)

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Offline ccvi

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Re: What will it take? (for HT)
« Reply #69 on: September 06, 2018, 01:32:19 AM »
We are approaching the level of players where this game will just implode, going below the critical mass. Already it is not playable during european daytime, with numbers <50 (and only 20 of them in the air) most of the time.

Unlikely to change. If any kind of advertisements are run they are targeted at the US market only. Even relatively simple suggestions to provide instructions for localized versions of keyboards to ease access for players with anything but 101-key Us-layout were explicitly rejected.
US afternoon is EU prime time, but attracting squeekers doesn't really work either. It simply isn't the kind of game for young people.

In this time zone, we're doomed.

Offline Litjan

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Re: What will it take? (for HT)
« Reply #70 on: September 06, 2018, 05:38:50 AM »
Unlikely to change. If any kind of advertisements are run they are targeted at the US market only. Even relatively simple suggestions to provide instructions for localized versions of keyboards to ease access for players with anything but 101-key Us-layout were explicitly rejected.
US afternoon is EU prime time, but attracting squeekers doesn't really work either. It simply isn't the kind of game for young people.

In this time zone, we're doomed.

Alright, I guess we need to shift our playing time to the time after midnight, then. Hit the sack at 6 pm, sleep 8 hours, get up quietly, play until 7 am, then off to work!  ;)

Litjan

Offline 1stpar3

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Re: What will it take? (for HT)
« Reply #71 on: September 06, 2018, 12:35:00 PM »
Maltese Falcon.  :)
Thought of that one....Jo is harder to shake. You can hide from a Falcon :x
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Offline nrshida

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Re: What will it take? (for HT)
« Reply #72 on: September 06, 2018, 01:03:03 PM »
Thought of that one....Jo is harder to shake. You can hide from a Falcon :x

I'll do some 1-on-1s with you bro, see if I can raise your game for you  :banana:
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Offline Chewie

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Re: What will it take? (for HT)
« Reply #73 on: September 11, 2018, 02:04:29 PM »
Would love to come back if they would get the numbers up to about 400-500 on a Friday night (been about 10 years for 900 on a Friday night, can't get in).   :x Maybe HT can do a one time sale to all the email address he has and say hey, come on back for 2 weeks free and get say 4 weeks free with the advertisement he is thinking. Maybe drop the fee to flat 10 bucks might help too.  Hope it works.  Bish forever.  Brewster buffalo with the firepower of a P-47N-THATS THE TICKET.   :aok 
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Offline Ciaphas

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What will it take? (for HT)
« Reply #74 on: September 11, 2018, 02:22:11 PM »
Would love to come back if they would get the numbers up to about 400-500 on a Friday night (been about 10 years for 900 on a Friday night, can't get in)

so, you'll come back if they get more people to play but wont come back to show higher numbers that will more than likely get more people to play?

sweet logic



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