Author Topic: What will it take? (for HT)  (Read 19098 times)

Offline Vraciu

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Re: What will it take? (for HT)
« Reply #75 on: September 11, 2018, 03:32:57 PM »

^^^^^^^ What he said.


Would love to come back if they would get the numbers up to about 400-500 on a Friday night (been about 10 years for 900 on a Friday night, can't get in).   :x Maybe HT can do a one time sale to all the email address he has and say hey, come on back for 2 weeks free and get say 4 weeks free with the advertisement he is thinking. Maybe drop the fee to flat 10 bucks might help too.  Hope it works.  Bish forever.  Brewster buffalo with the firepower of a P-47N-THATS THE TICKET.   :aok

They can't do that.  The last email campaign got them labeled as spam by numerous providers.
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Offline Lusche

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Re: What will it take? (for HT)
« Reply #76 on: September 11, 2018, 03:36:58 PM »
so, you'll come back if they get more people to play but wont come back to show higher numbers that will more than likely get more people to play?

sweet logic


It's actually perfectly reasonable. The numbers didn't sink because he left, they were doing it long before, and continued to do so. Player numbers won't rise just because he's back, but he will be stuck paying $$ for a gaming environment that's apparently not much fun for him. I am in a similar same boat - And I "came back" a few times. Did the player numbers jump up? ;)

If you play (& pay) is always a very personal decision, and mostly about your own enjoyment. 

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Offline Vraciu

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Re: What will it take? (for HT)
« Reply #77 on: September 11, 2018, 04:21:59 PM »

It's actually perfectly reasonable. The numbers didn't sink because he left, they were doing it long before, and continued to do so. Player numbers won't rise just because he's back, but he will be stuck paying $$ for a gaming environment that's apparently not much fun for him. I am in a similar same boat - And I "came back" a few times. Did the player numbers jump up? ;)

If you play (& pay) is always a very personal decision, and mostly about your own enjoyment.

They'll rise by one. :old:
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Offline Ciaphas

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What will it take? (for HT)
« Reply #78 on: September 11, 2018, 05:58:11 PM »

It's actually perfectly reasonable. The numbers didn't sink because he left, they were doing it long before, and continued to do so. Player numbers won't rise just because he's back, but he will be stuck paying $$ for a gaming environment that's apparently not much fun for him. I am in a similar same boat - And I "came back" a few times. Did the player numbers jump up?

If you play (& pay) is always a very personal decision, and mostly about your own enjoyment.


I've read a dozen or so posts about people saying that they will not be back till the numbers are up.

this is counter productive, had they nost left there would be 12 or so more people playing. that is sometimes the entire pipilation of a country.

so yes, the "I'll come back when numbers are up!" logic is highly flawed.




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Offline Lusche

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Re: What will it take? (for HT)
« Reply #79 on: September 11, 2018, 06:25:58 PM »

this is counter productive, had they nost left there would be 12 or so more people playing. that is sometimes the entire pipilation of a country.

AH still has well over thousand players on the battlegrounds each day. You would not even notice 12 more or less, because they are not on 24/7. Even a group of twelve (re)joinign in unison would not create any kind of turnaround.

I played regularly until November 15. The numbers went way down in the years before. I left, and the continued to fall. I rejoined for 1-3 tours repeatedly. It didn't matter, the numbers didn't care for neither my presence nor my absence. It had no influence. Me, or any other player rejoining makes no difference.
But for me, the combat environment was getting worse and worse.
I can not make decisions for others. I only have control over myself. All I can do is to make the decision for myself: Is it worth to paying 15$ per tour?



so yes, the "I'll come back when numbers are up!" logic is highly flawed.

From the individual standpoint: Absolutely not, because it doesn't matter if I am back or not. My presence changes nothing in the big picture.


And by the way, getting the old AH vets can only be of secondary importance. The main thing AH needs is acquiring new players.
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: What will it take? (for HT)
« Reply #80 on: September 11, 2018, 06:29:49 PM »
I don’t remember if I got into the original Aces High Beta in week one, but it was surely very early on.  It was a fascinating experience to watch an extremely dedicated, talented, and visionary team build up an massively multi-player online gaming platform literally from scratch.  I feel privileged that I was able to be there to witness that adventure.   As a software developer, having some understanding of the technological effort involved, I was extremely impressed with what a very small team accomplished is so short a time.  I have the utmost respect for the HTC team, and wish them nothing but success.

I personally have moved on to other gaming mostly, but I assure you, there is no other past game company I bother to periodically go back to their forum to check how things are going and to silently root for them.  I’ve opened/re-opened many AH accounts over the years, but of course can never recapture the same experience as I once had.  That doesn’t really mean anything.  Hitech will be the first to tell you  that it is perfectly natural for most players to have a life cycle and eventually burn out and move on.  There are always a percentage of hardcore lifers, but there is also a perfectly natural player attrition rate.  You just hope your player acquisition rate, plus hard core lifer retention, exceeds your attrition rate. 

So even though I am not currently active in the game, I have watched it closely over the last 17 years.  I hope that will justify me offering an opinion that is both informed by experience, yet because I am not currently one of the obsessed, benefits from some objectivity.

I can honestly say, without a doubt in my mind, that Hitech and the HTC team has reached the pinnacle of their genre.  Aces High III is the finest massively-multi-player hi-fidelity WWII aerial combat based game ever produced.

Period.  Full Stop.


Sadly, in 2018, that might be like saying you are the World’s premier precision buggy-whip manufacturer. 

I believe that the majority of players AH had at it’s peak, were probably not hardcore, dedicated, WWII air combat enthusiasts. I believe the majority simply wanted to play and with and against other online players and engage in combat of any kind.  At that time, AH, and Warbirds before that, and AW before that, were the industry standard model for online combat (assuming you didn’t want to prance around in tights and sprinkle pixie dust in Lord of the Elves or something.)

But the majority of these players probably weren’t WWII aircraft fanatics.  But they’d fly them. Because AH was the best online combat game going. When other models of combat games started appearing, they started evaporating off.  Eventually you are left with a dedicated hard core of WWII air combat addicts.  But that is a niche of a niche of a niche of a niche.

Hitech has made design choices I agree with, and some that made me want to pull my eyeballs out.  But I don’t think anything they have done has caused these changes in the marketplace.  You can argue about radars and this or that all day, but I don’t think any of that is the cause or the solution. 

I accept that the Great Recession was the proximate cause of the beginning player exodus, but I think you would have probably gotten to the same place eventually anyway. 

How many random internet gamers out there even own a joystick you think?  HOTAS? Rudder peddals?

How many players that are dedicated to hardcore hi-fidelity WWII air combat do you think are still out there that haven’t already heard of and tried AH? I’d wager that the vast majority of that demographic has already had AH on their hard-drive at one time.  I can’t imagine there is still a vast untapped pool.

I honestly can not think of any possible set of occurrences that would fundamentally alter the course of internet gaming evolution.  I can not conceive of any scenario where vast swaths of players are going to drop Battlefield V and WOT and sign up to be baby seals in AH; and no possible training program or newbie arena is going to make that happen.

You have niche of a niche of a niche boutique product.  It achieved a historically anomalous high player count at a time when more and more players wanted online combat, but before other competitors had “come online”. I think that was a unique point in time that can not be recreated.

What you can do now is ensure that you do gather in 100% of the kind of player who would fit your niche profile that are available.  You might find a few new ones more from time to time.  Hopefully at least enough to replace the elderly players that pass.  You certainly need to keep the ones you have.  You might outlast WWIIOnline and pull in some of those, though I expect most of those would go on to Battlefield or WOT, etc.  I can’t see how you would ever reach the populations that you achieved at peak. 

Hitech once told me he would never work on any other game except AH.  Given the history, in 2001 I understood that reasoning.  In 2018?  I’m reminded of interviews I’ve seen where directors like Coppola and Scorsese talk about having to do several commercial successes in order to finance their less commercial works of passion. They do that because some things are worth doing even if they don’t rake in millions.  Just for the love of it.  But someone still needs to pay the light bill.  HTC has vast experience in building and hosting massively multi-player online games.  I hope HTC has a long future, and I hope AH has a long future.

But honestly, would one more variant of P-38 really change anything?

 
« Last Edit: September 11, 2018, 06:39:33 PM by AKWabbit »
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: What will it take? (for HT)
« Reply #81 on: September 11, 2018, 07:06:21 PM »
AH still has well over thousand players on the battlegrounds each day. You would not even notice 12 more or less

Completely untrue.    Guys who fly a lot (like I used to) are noticed in their presence and absence.  Having twelve guys coming into an arena with only 45 online make a huge difference.

The notion that a dozen players won't be noticed is terribly dismissive.   EVERY player counts now.

Quote


From the individual standpoint: Absolutely not, because it doesn't matter if I am back or not. My presence changes nothing in the big picture.


It depends on how much you play.  I'd say your presence now would have a bigger impact than in times past.
« Last Edit: September 11, 2018, 07:08:39 PM by Vraciu »
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Offline Lusche

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Re: What will it take? (for HT)
« Reply #82 on: September 11, 2018, 07:28:20 PM »
Completely untrue.    Guys who fly a lot (like I used to) are noticed in their presence and absence.  Having twelve guys coming into an arena with only 45 online make a huge difference.

Highly unlikely they do come in "at once". It's still just ~1400+12, after from all those players only 10-150 are usually online at any given time.


It depends on how much you play.  I'd say your presence now would have a bigger impact than in times past.

I was here 4 months ago. My personal "impact" as a single player was doing crap for the game. It doesn't matter for overall numbers if I'm on or not, so the descision to subscribe can only be  a personal one. And I made mine based on the fact that the kind of battlefield I loved in AH is no more. It doesn't come back simply when I rejoin... been there, done that.
I am one. The game needs hundreds, thousands. They do not come because of me.
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Offline Ciaphas

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Re: What will it take? (for HT)
« Reply #83 on: September 11, 2018, 07:36:33 PM »
Don't get hung up in the numbers, focus on the ideology.

Saying that you will not come back to the game until people come back to the game is counter productive.





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Offline Lusche

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Re: What will it take? (for HT)
« Reply #84 on: September 11, 2018, 07:40:57 PM »
Don't get hung up in the numbers, focus on the ideology.

Saying that you will not come back to the game until people come back to the game is counter productive.


I would had preferred the term "numbers coming back" instead of "people coming back". I hope the difference is not lost on you  :P

But this is not about me :)

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Offline Vraciu

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Re: What will it take? (for HT)
« Reply #85 on: September 11, 2018, 08:33:57 PM »
Highly unlikely they do come in "at once". It's still just ~1400+12, after from all those players only 10-150 are usually online at any given time.

Twelve players who play only FSO will not be noticed (in the Melee Arena).  Twelve players like I once was (online 12 hours a day or more) will be.


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Offline Oldman731

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Re: What will it take? (for HT)
« Reply #86 on: September 11, 2018, 08:45:26 PM »
I can honestly say, without a doubt in my mind, that Hitech and the HTC team has reached the pinnacle of their genre.  Aces High III is the finest massively-multi-player hi-fidelity WWII aerial combat based game ever produced.

Period.  Full Stop.

Sadly, in 2018, that might be like saying you are the World’s premier precision buggy-whip manufacturer. 


Yo Wabbit!

You remember Blue Baron.  Long long ago, he wrote something that I copied down, and reproduce here:

This was the second funeral I've attended for Air Warrior, the first being the death of the so-called DOS host in 1995 - the end of the game's Golden Age, and the end to its uniqueness in the online medium. This was the death of the Air Warrior I knew - the one that inspired Hitech and Killer to go off and create Confirmed Kill, and the one HT doggedly sought, with success, to recapture in Aces High.  Although I remain immensely proud of our subsequent efforts, taking Air Warrior to Windows, to AOL, to DirectX, and Direct3D, all of us have our own Golden Age for online gaming.  That is the time of discovery and amazement, of embarrassment and of unexpected acts of kindness.  It is the time we first learn how weak mainstream entertainment is, as we realize it was talking down to us all those years.  In online, the audience is the medium - it is a narrative, told by the audience.  And the quality of that experience is different if this person or that is present, or not - if anyone of us is present or not.  We discover aspects of ourselves that would lay dormant otherwise, but we are unaware of the profound effect this is having on us until later.

As he said, each of us remembers his own Golden Age.  I'm sure that's so.  The people who came to this game when we had two arenas and hundreds of people remember that as their Best of All Times.  I remember AvA, when it had 30 people each night, as my Best of All Times.  The greater point is that, for all of us, the very fundamental basis of this game, however you wish to define it, keeps us coming back - just as you keep coming back.  I think it's a shame to call it "dead," or to rush off in a huff, as some do, because some feature displeases us.  We all have something important in common, and we should keep in touch with that.

Would be good to have you back again, just to mention it.

- oldman

Offline Ciaphas

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Re: What will it take? (for HT)
« Reply #87 on: September 11, 2018, 08:56:24 PM »

I would had preferred the term "numbers coming back" instead of "people coming back". I hope the difference is not lost on you  :P

But this is not about me :)

Perpetuating the problem is helpful how?


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Offline CptTrips

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Re: What will it take? (for HT)
« Reply #88 on: September 11, 2018, 10:32:07 PM »

Yo Wabbit!

You remember Blue Baron.  Long long ago, he wrote something that I copied down, and reproduce here:




Hey Oldman.  Good to see your handle again. 

I knew “of” Blue Baron, but I never had a conversation with him.  That is an awesome quote.  Hold on to that.  Someday, someone really needs to capture and document the history of the early days of online gaming.  Just to record what it was like to have been there at the beginning and seen it start.  It would make a great book.  Like “Pirates of Silicon Valley” for MMOG gaming. ;o)

I remember playing DOS AW.  I only played RR because I had a crappy phone connection.  Played AW on Genie.  LoL.  Skipped CC and Warbirds.  Played some other stuff, but for me, the Golden Age of gaming was probably the first year of AH.  Of course, I’m the exact kind of gamer I’m talking about.  Looking back on it, it wasn’t WWII air combat I was fascinated with, but online multi-player combat gaming.  Online flightsims were really just the best implementation at the time.   Many other options now.

And it sorta makes sense. An aircraft in motion has a certain amount on continuity to its path.  There is only so fast you can change it’s velocity vector.  Remember, this was the days of copper wire.  Packet latency was a significant design issue.    The relatively smooth motion of an aircraft allowed some possibility of interpolation and prediction to overcome and smooth out the positional errors introduced by signal latency.  Just review some of Hitech’s patents.  A Battlefield type game back then would really have been impossible.  How fast an infantryman could run left, then right, then drop, then jump up and throw grenade, then turn around and run away… there is no way that could have been supported in a multiplayer environment with the connection latency of the day.  Air combat was a natural starting place.   

Now, to be clear, I’m not saying AH is dead.  I am just saying that given the realities of the current competitive landscape, and the very limited demographics of players who are so dedicated to hardcore, hi-fidelity WWII air combat that they’d be willing to climb the learning curve and spend months getting slaughtered before even having a chance…I suspect there is just a limit to how many more players you could reasonably expect to find at this point.  I’d guess that AH has about 70% (pure SWAG) of that possible niche market in it’s current player base already.  I don’t see huge untapped pools of players waiting.  Most people don’t even own a joystick anymore.  That is sooooo 1990’s.  If they do, it is in a box on the top shelf of the closet with a bunch of 3.5” floppies.   :rofl

There used to be more players, but they were probably like me; they just wanted a great multi-player combat experience and AH was the best option.  There are so many options now if you are not locked in to WWII air combat.  Most people aren’t.  It was cool.  I enjoyed it, but it’s definitely a “different” gaming experience.  I call it “long form” gaming.  I just am not convince you can bring back all those peak casual players that now have so many other intense gaming options.


At some point, I wonder if HTC is going to need to leverage it’s highly valuable skills to create other revenue streams to help fund their AH passion.  Even though I’m not really into it anymore, I recognized AH as the best in class of it’s genre and hope it is kept alive for those who still have that interest.

And I’ll open an account now and then for a time just keep my finger on the pulse.  :aok

Regards,
Wab

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Offline Puma44

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Re: What will it take? (for HT)
« Reply #89 on: September 13, 2018, 09:45:29 AM »

As he said, each of us remembers his own Golden Age.  I'm sure that's so.  The people who came to this game when we had two arenas and hundreds of people remember that as their Best of All Times.  I remember AvA, when it had 30 people each night, as my Best of All Times.  The greater point is that, for all of us, the very fundamental basis of th game, however you wish to define it, keeps us coming back - just as you keep coming back.  I think it's a shame to call it "dead," or to rush off in a huff, as some do, because some feature displeases us.  We all have something important in common, and we should keep in touch with that.

 oldman

I agree Oldman.  Those days of high numbers in the AvA with no enemy icons were the all time best I’ve experienced in AH.  That was the closest to real world fighter combat, which I dearly miss.  :salute



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