88s

[ccvi]

Do you think that the use of guns would change if the gunner score had a death count?

Would you feel better if attack-score had a guns-killed counter?

[RODBUSTR]

    Pretty much the only way to get clobbered by an 88 while playing a fighter is to fly right down the barrel, The dual 5' 38s on the ships are a different story here.   For a while I kept a loose count of rounds fire at my fighters and it takes close to1000 rounds to even ding one.   But to be accurate Luftwaffe gunner averaged about 8000 round per plane shot down and AH"s rate is about 1/8 that.  As a defense don't egress in a straight line. Make your turn faster than the gun can swing, and change alt every few seconds.  Have a blast.

[icepac]

Many people get in the guns under situations because they did not react to a warning that a horde attack is coming to a field.

A solitary person at a front line base gives warning that he saw a sizable dar bar "bloom" and then vanish pretty quickly at the enemy base nearest to the field.   

You look at the map and it's just one friendly in a fighter and a now flashing base but no dar bar.

He warns again that a horde is coming.

Nobody responds.   

Now there is sizable dar bar in the sector of the nearest enemy base that moves to the base where the attack warning mentions.   

Nobody responds.

Suddenly, on the edge of the dar ring are 4 bomber groups coming in.      The raging clue is now showing.

The enemy bombers slowly ooze toward the friendly base where the warning went up 10 minutes ago.

Nobody responds.

Red fighter dots start to show on the edge of the dar ring that grow in number quickly.........8 enemy fighters are inbound!!

Nobody responds while some are bemoaning being "unable to find a fight" on channel 200.   

The enemy fighters arrive at the friendly base where the warning went up 15 minutes earlier.   

15 friendly wirbelwinds spawn.   

Enemy establishes cap.   

Friendlies now try to take off, get vulched a few times and say "this is BS" and either man guns or start M3s from another field.

The base is overwhelmed but the defenders aren't smart enough to up from the next base out and go to the source of the enemy planes so they can come in with an advantage while enemy climbs.    No, they try to spawn from the base under attack and  climb when there is a lull.......... just in time for the next wave of enemy fighters to come in with a 13k altitude advantage.   

Then they say "I'm logging.....this horde stuff is BS".

This is warfare 101 and most are ignoring the things taught during the first hour of the first day of class.

Some might be able to coax a TA152 over the top of a loop under control at 38mph but that same person will not employ things that a 5th grader learned during his first game of capture the flag.

You have to laugh when 7 guys show up to a field take ("the cavalry is coming".....with great fanfare on country channel) either with no bombs or they lay all the ord on the group of enemy wirb defenders.    Meanwhile the town only needed a single ack or building downed to meet the minimum requirements of a field take.

Don't hate the game when it's the playa who is going backwards in terms of effectiveness.

[Vraciu]

    Pretty much the only way to get clobbered by an 88 while playing a fighter is to fly right down the barrel,

It doesn’t have to kill you to grief the fight, but you’re wrong any way.

The dual 5' 38s on the ships are a different story here.   For a while I kept a loose count of rounds fire at my fighters and it takes close to1000 rounds to even ding one.   But to be accurate Luftwaffe gunner averaged about 8000 round per plane shot down and AH"s rate is about 1/8 that.  As a defense don't egress in a straight line. Make your turn faster than the gun can swing, and change alt every few seconds.  Have a blast.

The resident expert on everything (except the SHIFT key) has spoken. 

HAVEABLAST

[Wiley]

Many people get in the guns under situations because they did not react to a warning that a horde attack is coming to a field.

A solitary person at a front line base gives warning that he saw a sizable dar bar "bloom" and then vanish pretty quickly at the enemy base nearest to the field.   

You look at the map and it's just one friendly in a fighter and a now flashing base but no dar bar.

He warns again that a horde is coming.

Nobody responds.   
...

That about catches it.  For some reason, for the vast majority of players if it's not an airplane showing on their map, it is invisible and nothing people say on channel will make them aware of it.  I don't get it.  It could be wishful thinking, but it seems to me the new dar is helping get a response when the single guy gets in icon range of the horde.

Wiley.

[Ramesis]

You know you guys can go create an arena just for fights, I'm sure if you all get together it would be a least 7 or 8 of you.

I've said this before... there was a dueling arena and ostensibly it was set up those who wished to ONLY dogfight...
I'm guessing it was not good enough for ya'll
 

[Vraciu]

I've said this before... there was a dueling arena and ostensibly it was set up those who wished to ONLY dogfight...
I'm guessing it was not good enough for ya'll
 

I have a great idea.   Let’s ban dogfighting from the Melee Arena.  /sarcasticblue

[Ramesis]

I have a great idea.   Let’s ban dogfighting from the Melee Arena.  /sarcasticblue

I have a better idea... bring back the DA and that way those who squeak
and moan will have an arena they can't squeak about
 

[The Fugitive]

I have a better idea... bring back the DA and that way those who squeak
and moan will have an arena they can't squeak about
 

I dont want to fight in the DA in ANY form.

I want to fight against other players who are trying to take my teams bases, or against other teams as my team tries to take their bases. Fighting A to A or A to G or G to G is all well and good, they are all fun. But with the low numbers it is getting harder and harder to find these fights. When a good percentage of players jump into guns, 88s, or M3s to run supplies it removes a lot of FIGHTING.

You want to bomb my strats, dont fly off the map, dont fly at 30k feet, dont bail just before I get into icon range, FIGHT ME!

You want to save your base from attack, dont hide in a gun or 88, dont run supplies at the first hint of a bomber on dar, FIGHT ME!

You want to take one of my teams bases, dont NOE it, Dont dive bomb with hvy bombers, dont horde it, FIGHT ME!

I think thats all most of us want here. Play the game any way you want but FIGHT for it.

[Zener]

All this proposed change just because a couple guns can't be taken out with cannon fire?  People don't have a problem killing radars, killing ammo bunkers, but heaven forbid they make one straight pass and knock out 2 88s. 

[Devil 505]

I dont want to fight in the DA in ANY form.

I want to fight against other players who are trying to take my teams bases, or against other teams as my team tries to take their bases. Fighting A to A or A to G or G to G is all well and good, they are all fun. But with the low numbers it is getting harder and harder to find these fights. When a good percentage of players jump into guns, 88s, or M3s to run supplies it removes a lot of FIGHTING.

You want to bomb my strats, dont fly off the map, dont fly at 30k feet, dont bail just before I get into icon range, FIGHT ME!

You want to save your base from attack, dont hide in a gun or 88, dont run supplies at the first hint of a bomber on dar, FIGHT ME!

You want to take one of my teams bases, dont NOE it, Dont dive bomb with hvy bombers, dont horde it, FIGHT ME!

I think thats all most of us want here. Play the game any way you want but FIGHT for it.

Fuji for President.

[The Fugitive]

All this proposed change just because a couple guns can't be taken out with cannon fire?  People don't have a problem killing radars, killing ammo bunkers, but heaven forbid they make one straight pass and knock out 2 88s. 

Its not that it hard to take them out, just that players are hiding in them, jumping from gun to gun as they are destroied. Then when they are out of guns and 88s they say "Well Im not going toup there and get vulched, and it is most likely going to be capture before I can grab alt from the next base over" so they go some place else. Ends up being no fights generated!

[Vraciu]

I dont want to fight in the DA in ANY form.

I want to fight against other players who are trying to take my teams bases, or against other teams as my team tries to take their bases. Fighting A to A or A to G or G to G is all well and good, they are all fun. But with the low numbers it is getting harder and harder to find these fights. When a good percentage of players jump into guns, 88s, or M3s to run supplies it removes a lot of FIGHTING.

You want to bomb my strats, dont fly off the map, dont fly at 30k feet, dont bail just before I get into icon range, FIGHT ME!

You want to save your base from attack, dont hide in a gun or 88, dont run supplies at the first hint of a bomber on dar, FIGHT ME!

You want to take one of my teams bases, dont NOE it, Dont dive bomb with hvy bombers, dont horde it, FIGHT ME!

I think thats all most of us want here. Play the game any way you want but FIGHT for it.

This. 

[Vraciu]

All this proposed change just because a couple guns can't be taken out with cannon fire?  People don't have a problem killing radars, killing ammo bunkers, but heaven forbid they make one straight pass and knock out 2 88s. 

Obviously a man of limited experience.   It is far more nuanced than this.

[ccvi]

Fights and winning the war don't mix nicely. A field can be captured easily within a couple of minutes from the first hit on town, if the attack is coordinated well. An air-to-air fight on the other hand can easily take 15 minutes - or as long as it takes for dead hangars to respawn. Basically spending time fighting yields less positive impact on the war than anything else. The only exceptions is distracting enemies from more important activites.

For fights to be tied in to the war field capture would need to be slowed down. For example, by adding a criterion for air superiority for x amount of time at the area of the town, with a sufficiently large x. Maybe not even necessarily air superiority, just any kind of numerical advantage / minimum alive time of individual players or similar.