Author Topic: base turnover: guns vs hangars  (Read 8098 times)

Offline SPKmes

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Re: base turnover: guns vs hangars
« Reply #15 on: November 25, 2018, 06:02:36 PM »
I agree with OP.... especially as with what I have noticed a lot of these days...all guns are destroyed on the fields...vulch is on...fair enough, it a base take....yet they are fully repaired on base capture.... so why not hangers??? sure if the guns were not taken down then there would still be ammo and a working gun in the turret and it is feasible that someone could jump in and get firing straight away no problem...but if it is a destroyed clump of metal...down times should stand...

and if you don't like my opinion....I don't care.... It is mine...

Offline Ciaphas

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base turnover: guns vs hangars
« Reply #16 on: November 25, 2018, 06:36:19 PM »
I agree with OP.... especially as with what I have noticed a lot of these days...all guns are destroyed on the fields...vulch is on...fair enough, it a base take....yet they are fully repaired on base capture.... so why not hangers??? sure if the guns were not taken down then there would still be ammo and a working gun in the turret and it is feasible that someone could jump in and get firing straight away no problem...but if it is a destroyed clump of metal...down times should stand...

and if you don't like my opinion....I don't care.... It is mine...


theoretically what's easier to repair?

A hangar will take a while to rebuild, AAA can be rolled to a field during capture by invading forces. Sure, it's a bit unrealistic on the scale but not outside of the realm of possibility.

There are so many implied actions happening behind the scenes. To have them carried out by a player would cause one maybe two bases to be captured a day.




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Offline scott66

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Re: base turnover: guns vs hangars
« Reply #17 on: November 25, 2018, 06:37:12 PM »
You can NOT force s player to do anything.. I'm surprised after all these years some of the best sticks in the game still haven't figured that out
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: base turnover: guns vs hangars
« Reply #18 on: November 25, 2018, 06:38:47 PM »
Sit Scott sit.


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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: base turnover: guns vs hangars
« Reply #19 on: November 25, 2018, 06:41:35 PM »
Then take out the VH, it's not rocket science.

want to remove the GV resup from the equation, tae out the fields ability to launch them.

As far as the AAA hitting friendlies. I have yet to see a friendly take any damage from allied AAA.

you explained why it happens in your question/complaint.

If AAA fires randomly in a predefined area, a target, regardless of size (as long as the target is not the same size as the target area) is less likely to get hit moving in a straight line. A maneuvering target is more likely to get hit while maneuvering through the target area as its path can and will encounter the random bullets more frequently by chance.

whether you like it or not, everything that is being done by a player is related to combat. It doesn't matter if you agree with it. If that dude running sups to town prevents your attack, so be it. Prepare better next time.

Everything that HTC has given us to use serves a purpose. Everything has a tactical/logistical relevance in this game.

It is a combat game, a very dynamic combat game.



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Its too bad it is not all used. The point of the game..... or I always thought it was.... was combat. Todays players are using the tools to AVOID all combat.

Old days...

8-10 players would have a mission meeting, assign planes, targets, back up plans. Mission would launch, some of the more elaborate plans used way points and fighter groups rendezvousing from different base (know one guy who loved doing the math for time and speed to make these meetings).

Attack would begin. Defenders may or may not intercept, but once the base was under attack they would up fighters to push back the attack. The hunt for the troops began. Resupplying was not an option. If the VH was down early you had the LTARs to contend with for the rest of the night. Did I say "rest of the night?", yes because once a mission was stopped by the defenders we didnt move off to attack a different front because there was opposition, we regrouped on the fly and attacked again. Battles for bases could last for HOURS.

Present day...

version one, 3-4 players spawn in to field and long range drop buildings at a town. once white flaged everyone jumps into M3 and rushes the town with troops to capture. If it is spotted and M3s are killed they may try one more run with troops, but thats it. Attack over they move someplace else.

version two, 12-15 players launch from the same field, more often than not they try to go NOE, or not more than 5k. Low and fast to get in and do the damage before the enemy spots what they are doing. 3, or more buff groups carpet bomb a town with M3 running in under the falling debris the rest fighters looking to vulch.

version three, 25+ players launch from field after field and horde base after base.

In all three versions of "todays" play COMBAT is lacking. Should any fighting actually happen the attackers fold up camp and move off to try a grab some other base that other players are not watching.

People get board doing those same "missions" <---- and I use that term VERY lightly here.... and soon move on to other games. Where are the "dynamics" you mentioned? Sure the game has so many things to use, but as it is now players are allowed to boil it down to the weakest, most unimaginative, lamest game play there is. If this is the dirrection HTC wants to push the game, great, just let me know and I'll shut up and move on. If it isnt, things are going to have to change before everyone gets board and moves on.

You can NOT force s player to do anything.. I'm surprised after all these years some of the best sticks in the game still haven't figured that out

Sure you can, HTC FORCES players to get 10 uninjured troops in to capture a field, or hit with over 8k of bombs to sink a cruiser, or any number of things we do in the game. Its all coad. When most missions were NOE and we were stuck playing "wack a mole" trying to stop base captures radar was changed to make NOEs mission more difficult and so FORCED players into other missions.

It can be done.   

Offline Ciaphas

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Re: base turnover: guns vs hangars
« Reply #20 on: November 25, 2018, 07:16:32 PM »
Those people are using ground vehicles, heavy bombers, light bombers, fighters to quickly grab a field. That's pretty dynamic.

If this playing style is used so much, you'd figure that a counter to it would be used. There is a counter but it takes coordination to accomplish.

This isn't a "meet me at the flag pole at 3" type of game.


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Offline scott66

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Re: base turnover: guns vs hangars
« Reply #21 on: November 25, 2018, 08:37:17 PM »
Its too bad it is not all used. The point of the game..... or I always thought it was.... was combat. Todays players are using the tools to AVOID all combat.

Old days...

8-10 players would have a mission meeting, assign planes, targets, back up plans. Mission would launch, some of the more elaborate plans used way points and fighter groups rendezvousing from different base (know one guy who loved doing the math for time and speed to make these meetings).

Attack would begin. Defenders may or may not intercept, but once the base was under attack they would up fighters to push back the attack. The hunt for the troops began. Resupplying was not an option. If the VH was down early you had the LTARs to contend with for the rest of the night. Did I say "rest of the night?", yes because once a mission was stopped by the defenders we didnt move off to attack a different front because there was opposition, we regrouped on the fly and attacked again. Battles for bases could last for HOURS.

Present day...

version one, 3-4 players spawn in to field and long range drop buildings at a town. once white flaged everyone jumps into M3 and rushes the town with troops to capture. If it is spotted and M3s are killed they may try one more run with troops, but thats it. Attack over they move someplace else.

version two, 12-15 players launch from the same field, more often than not they try to go NOE, or not more than 5k. Low and fast to get in and do the damage before the enemy spots what they are doing. 3, or more buff groups carpet bomb a town with M3 running in under the falling debris the rest fighters looking to vulch.

version three, 25+ players launch from field after field and horde base after base.

In all three versions of "todays" play COMBAT is lacking. Should any fighting actually happen the attackers fold up camp and move off to try a grab some other base that other players are not watching.

People get board doing those same "missions" <---- and I use that term VERY lightly here.... and soon move on to other games. Where are the "dynamics" you mentioned? Sure the game has so many things to use, but as it is now players are allowed to boil it down to the weakest, most unimaginative, lamest game play there is. If this is the dirrection HTC wants to push the game, great, just let me know and I'll shut up and move on. If it isnt, things are going to have to change before everyone gets board and moves on.

Sure you can, HTC FORCES players to get 10 uninjured troops in to capture a field, or hit with over 8k of bombs to sink a cruiser, or any number of things we do in the game. Its all coad. When most missions were NOE and we were stuck playing "wack a mole" trying to stop base captures radar was changed to make NOEs mission more difficult and so FORCED players into other missions.

It can be done.   
that's not forcing that's just programming and requirements

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Offline scott66

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Re: base turnover: guns vs hangars
« Reply #22 on: November 25, 2018, 08:57:41 PM »
I've heard this argument for a long time ... People trying to force ground people AKA manned guns and tank drivers into the air to defend... Ain't gonna happen you could take away the resupply aspect of the game altogether it still won't get you what you want but let me ask you this when your m3 drivers resupply the town and save the base do you scold them for being in an m3 or do you say way to go when your 88mm Gunners pluck bombers out of the sky from 10K and stop your base from getting flattened do you scold them for being in a manned gun or do you say way to go careful what you wish for what benefits one side benefits all sides.. I don't mind helping aircraft to defend the base but if there are 12 of you and only three of us and we get vulched and can't even get up off the field chances are you'll find us resupplying the town in m3s
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Offline Lazerr

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Re: base turnover: guns vs hangars
« Reply #23 on: November 25, 2018, 09:07:06 PM »
I've heard this argument for a long time ... People trying to force ground people AKA manned guns and tank drivers into the air to defend... Ain't gonna happen you could take away the resupply aspect of the game altogether it still won't get you what you want but let me ask you this when your m3 drivers resupply the town and save the base do you scold them for being in an m3 or do you say way to go when your 88mm Gunners pluck bombers out of the sky from 10K and stop your base from getting flattened do you scold them for being in a manned gun or do you say way to go careful what you wish for what benefits one side benefits all sides.. I don't mind helping aircraft to defend the base but if there are 12 of you and only three of us and we get vulched and can't even get up off the field chances are you'll find us resupplying the town in m3s

Rather than come from a base back and fight for it? Sounds like the easy road.

Offline Ciaphas

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Re: base turnover: guns vs hangars
« Reply #24 on: November 25, 2018, 09:30:37 PM »
Rather than come from a base back and fight for it? Sounds like the easy road.


It is my understanding that you can't resupply a town from it's owning field.

Am I wrong in this assumption?


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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: base turnover: guns vs hangars
« Reply #25 on: November 25, 2018, 09:52:41 PM »
Those people are using ground vehicles, heavy bombers, light bombers, fighters to quickly grab a field. That's pretty dynamic.

If this playing style is used so much, you'd figure that a counter to it would be used. There is a counter but it takes coordination to accomplish.

This isn't a "meet me at the flag pole at 3" type of game.


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....and avoiding as much fighting they can.

Did you read what I wrote about "old days"? Planning, execution, timing, working together using way points to get to your target (also using them to try and confuse the enemy). It has nothing to do with "me me at the flag pole". It is using the game functions to build a plan and execute it BETTER than the enemy and prevail through fighting, NOT AVOIDING IT!

that's not forcing that's just programming and requirements



Of course it is forcing players to play a certain way. It is setting parameters to form how the game is played. The NOE example proves it CAN and HAS been done.

It isnt so much trying to push players out of GVs and guns but making players fight. As it is now, 4 guys sneak base after base runnig the GV spawn lines. Giving them a timed restriction where they must stay behind and "defend" the just taken base would help slow that type of run, and bring more players in to fight for the bases. 

Offline SPKmes

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Re: base turnover: guns vs hangars
« Reply #26 on: November 25, 2018, 10:01:34 PM »
wow...this started off as a simple...why do the guns insta fix and hangers not ....to...welll   this   hahahaha

but on the flip side...I spose if you didn't have guns come up straight away you would end up having a bunch of M3's ready to re take the field back....then things would become stupid.


so in the end it all comes down to our mentality...and well...quite frankly  ....   hahahaha


and before we all get offended...I have friends on the otherside of the agument too  :grin:
« Last Edit: November 25, 2018, 10:06:52 PM by SPKmes »

Offline Ciaphas

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base turnover: guns vs hangars
« Reply #27 on: November 25, 2018, 10:17:37 PM »
....and avoiding as much fighting they can.

Did you read what I wrote about "old days"? Planning, execution, timing, working together using way points to get to your target (also using them to try and confuse the enemy). It has nothing to do with "me me at the flag pole". It is using the game functions to build a plan and execute it BETTER than the enemy and prevail through fighting, NOT AVOIDING IT!

Of course I read what you typed. I remember the old days, maybe not the before times (pre 2008), but I remember a much larger player base than what we have now.

See the thing is this, you're upset that people are playing the game the way that they envision it and not the way you envision it.

More times than not I see "ninja" base grabs being thwarted more than I see them be successful. I have also been a part of ninja grabs that have turned in to knock down drag out brawls for the field in question.

Check out this dynamic:

If I am going to try and grab a quick base to pull one of my enemy countries attention away from what they are currently focused on, I get a few people together, launch out (non NOE) and smash every VH with a spawn to my target while a few go in and de-ack the target town and fly in troops (my preferred method of delivery). It takes coordination, timing and the right rides and load outs for the mission.

oh, by the way, you have to have a contingency plan when things get sideways as they usually do.

If any one of those elements fails, we are getting stuck in to a pretty gnarly fight for the target field. Mind you we have already let whoever is paying attention know our intentions and target. SA, it's an odd little thing.

Quote
Of course it is forcing players to play a certain way. It is setting parameters to form how the game is played. The NOE example proves it CAN and HAS been done.

It isnt so much trying to push players out of GVs and guns but making players fight. As it is now, 4 guys sneak base after base runnig the GV spawn lines. Giving them a timed restriction where they must stay behind and "defend" the just taken base would help slow that type of run, and bring more players in to fight for the bases.

As the retreating force, take out the connecting fields VH's.  Problem solved... .




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« Last Edit: November 25, 2018, 10:19:48 PM by Ciaphas »
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Offline The Fugitive

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Re: base turnover: guns vs hangars
« Reply #28 on: November 25, 2018, 10:31:59 PM »
....and again avoid fighting. You do know you can roll bases all by yourself off line and save the internet cost right?  :rolleyes:

The point is players are AVOIDING fighting in a COMBAT game and nobody seems to know "why" we have so many fewer players than we use to.  :headscratch:

Offline scott66

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Re: base turnover: guns vs hangars
« Reply #29 on: November 25, 2018, 10:41:04 PM »
Rather than come from a base back and fight for it? Sounds like the easy road.
with 12 of you and 3 of us coming from an airfield back a base will do nothing to save the base.. It will keep us fighting in the air while troops run into maproom...
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