Target for Today - "Bavaria 1945" - Event Write-Up

[perdue3]

Not speaking for Shuf, but ....

Just allow the Arados to be shot down on sight and up the points for either them or the 262s being splashed. Then have at it. Unlimited free jets in an event, man.

As it is written, Ar 234's can be killed by anything at any time. Also, Ar 234's are currently worth 2 fighters. However, Me 262's are worth 1 point like all the other fighters. I would have nothing against increasing the point value of the Me 262. I would also be happy to trade all six jets for ten Ta 152's, as puller suggested. But, I do not speak for the entire TFT team.

Also, I have read many comments about perdweeb being in a Me 262. If that is somehow hurting this event, I will gladly not fly the Me 262. I am uncertain as to how that is the case, but if there is an overwhelming number of complaints regarding this, I will oblige. I am here to help the event grow and events in general prosper. If my participation in a certain aircraft takes away from that I will find another aircraft to fly. 

 

[Arlo]

I would have nothing against increasing the point value of the Me 262. I would also be happy to trade all six jets for ten Ta 152's, as puller suggested. But, I do not speak for the entire TFT team.

The former sounds easier .... and even better. Get with the rest of the TFT team. I bet Allied command wouldn't mind but, like you, I don't speak for them. I want you in a 262. I really do. 

[Shuffler]

This is an "I don't wanna play because the Axis have 4 jets" negotiation from the Allied side...leave the jets out!!!!

Leave em out....

Bump our Dora's and give us 152s

K4s are hard to use by noobs....

LOL I am not participating for more reasons than that. Continue on the route yall have chosen. Good luck, have fun.

[Guppy35]

This is an "I don't wanna play because the Axis have 4 jets" negotiation from the Allied side...leave the jets out!!!!

Leave em out....

Bump our Dora's and give us 152s

K4s are hard to use by noobs....

Come on Puller, you gotta do better than this.  Part of your argument is there will be less LW.  Not in the design.  We aren’t talking about recruiting.  Then you say K4s are hard to fly?  Some dismiss their performance advantages?  Lose the D9s and get 152s?  Interesting logic.

As I said in response to Perdweeb.  I know it can’t change at this point.  Too late in the game to upend it.  I wanted to understand the logic and express my concern. 

One of the fundamental issues going back forever with scenarios involving buffs is giving the bomber guys a chance.  In this event there is a small amount of bombers.  Escorts are outnumbered as well. Now you have two 234s as scouts. Untouchable unless they are completely clueless, to find on group of buffs and direct the fighters to it.  It’s tough enough when the scouts are K4s. 

You talk about all those Mustangs.  Yet they are matched and overmatched by the LW in performance and numbers.  I’m a 38 guy, but I took a 51 to give myself half a chance. I’ve flown escorts in 38s.  In this set up they will be at a big disadvantage.   

Real simple if I’m LW CO.  Send my 234s to find the buffs and run from the fighters.  Then my 262s make passes at the fighters to disrupt the escorts.  Then my piston engine jobs make a pass at the bomber formation and by the third hour the 17 guys are saying the heck with this.

In the end I worry most about the bomber guys as they are the hardest to get involved and the easiest to discourage.   Betting on low LW numbers as a way to balance the game play is a poor approach

Again.  Perdweeb answered my question so that’s it.  I hope my concerns prove to be unwarranted.  My previous experience gives me that concern

[Arlo]

[Orderly screams 'ten-shun!']

"As you were. All right, men. We have a job to do. It's a hard job. It's a dangerous job. Most of us will die. Maybe all. But ... that's our job. Remember to stock up on beer and to give each other a head's up when you head to the head. Those of you that make it all the way to the target, and it will be few of you ... if any, don't forget to drop bombs. All it takes is one that actually hits the designated target, not a church, school or hospital, like last time, and you will receive a shiny medal (possibly posthumously as you die trying to make it home). The good news is you get to do this over and over again. For 12 hours, if you're up to it.

To sum things up:

You're more than likely gonna die. Bring beer. Drop a bomb if you make it there. Don't commit a war crime. Try to make it home, but if you don't we'll mail your medal to your family."

[Orderly screams 'Dis-missed!']

[Everyone streams to the O-club because this mission doesn't begin for almost a month.]

*(See? All it takes is the right frame of mind and it'll be a blast.)*

 

[TWCAxew]

Allied command has not lobbied against the jets. True they are a mennece to deal with but we also see why they are included. Without them the ponies would out preform the axis planes.

10 TA 152s in my opinion would be worse to deal with than 4 262's.

I just hope to see the roster get filled and we will have loads of fun. It's gonna be a great day for all those involved, please join

DutchVII

[swareiam]

To be terribly honest chaps. Jets burn just like any other plane...



















So... NO FEAR, right? 

[puller]

Bump Doras as get more of them

[Arlo]

Bump Doras as get more of them

So .... you don't care about the jets and you like a challenge but now you're on a 'more Doras' campaign? Heh.

Okies.

[Spikes]

Come on Puller, you gotta do better than this.  Part of your argument is there will be less LW.  Not in the design.  We aren’t talking about recruiting.  Then you say K4s are hard to fly?  Some dismiss their performance advantages?  Lose the D9s and get 152s?  Interesting logic.

As I said in response to Perdweeb.  I know it can’t change at this point.  Too late in the game to upend it.  I wanted to understand the logic and express my concern. 

One of the fundamental issues going back forever with scenarios involving buffs is giving the bomber guys a chance.  In this event there is a small amount of bombers.  Escorts are outnumbered as well. Now you have two 234s as scouts. Untouchable unless they are completely clueless, to find on group of buffs and direct the fighters to it.  It’s tough enough when the scouts are K4s. 

You talk about all those Mustangs.  Yet they are matched and overmatched by the LW in performance and numbers.  I’m a 38 guy, but I took a 51 to give myself half a chance. I’ve flown escorts in 38s.  In this set up they will be at a big disadvantage.   

Real simple if I’m LW CO.  Send my 234s to find the buffs and run from the fighters.  Then my 262s make passes at the fighters to disrupt the escorts.  Then my piston engine jobs make a pass at the bomber formation and by the third hour the 17 guys are saying the heck with this.

In the end I worry most about the bomber guys as they are the hardest to get involved and the easiest to discourage.   Betting on low LW numbers as a way to balance the game play is a poor approach

Again.  Perdweeb answered my question so that’s it.  I hope my concerns prove to be unwarranted.  My previous experience gives me that concern

Keep in mind there will also be darbar and the target areas are small, so there isn't a whole lot of room to run to begin with. Ar 234 will only make the locations a bit more pinpoint.

Neither of the jets do well above 26K or so, I'd say 30K is the absolute max for the 262 before it starts to suffer with turns and performance, and escort fighters should be well above 30K.

The event was not balanced based on projected low numbers of Luftwaffe pilots. With that said, it should be taken into consideration when approaching game-day. Allied rides are generally more appealing to the player base and will be able to be 'filled' much easier on game-day (ie the walk-ons and newcomers to events), as evidenced by the current registration page. If those numbers were our game-day numbers, the B-17s will have a great time never losing a drone.

As for your previous post, I will gladly not fly a 234 if someone else wants to fly around scouting in one for 12 hours.

[Arlo]

The event was not balanced based on projected low numbers of Luftwaffe pilots. With that said, it should be taken into consideration when approaching game-day. Allied rides are generally more appealing to the player base and will be able to be 'filled' much easier on game-day (ie the walk-ons and newcomers to events), as evidenced by the current registration page. If those numbers were our game-day numbers, the B-17s will have a great time never losing a drone.

Lack of participation based on a false sense of persecution has never been an Allied problem, I agree.

[perdue3]

As I said in response to Perdweeb.  I know it can’t change at this point.  Too late in the game to upend it.  I wanted to understand the logic and express my concern. 


Real simple if I’m LW CO.  Send my 234s to find the buffs and run from the fighters.  Then my 262s make passes at the fighters to disrupt the escorts.  Then my piston engine jobs make a pass at the bomber formation and by the third hour the 17 guys are saying the heck with this.

No one said it can't be changed. If there is a glaring issue that causes ruffles in the community who is going to fly it, I would hope we can change it. Again, I do not speak for the entire team.  I would certainly lobby for changes if an overwhelming number of people complained about a certain idea or facet of the event. Currently, three people are complaining about jets. But, these complaints are derived from opinions and one-sided  experiences. Likewise, the counter to those arguments are the same. I get the argument, jets are scary and nigh untouchable in the right hands. But, they cannot do what 10 K-4's can do. They also attract more attention than A-8's  and Doras, which is a mixed blessing. They are also exponentially easier to kill at altitude. I legitimately believe that they will not have the impact most think they will. They will get plenty of kills and will have an impact on whether or not the Axis win, but they will not break the event. Ten Ta 152's would break the event.

That is just about it, Guppy. A very simple plan, but if executed correctly, we will annihilate the Allies. The problem with your 262 plan is that the Allies will be above them, so it is more about attracting fighters low which will cost the Allies because they will have given up premium positioning. If they dive, they allow our 109's to get above them, if they stay high the jets are rendered just about useless until the rest of the defenders show up. Also, all it would take is one or two P-51's to send the jets low. If you sacrifice two P-51's, you push the jets away for at least 10 minutes. It is these sorts of decisions and execution that make flying jets and flying with them so fun and intriguing. And, honestly, your plan is not all that different from a typical plan not involving jets. Replace both jets with 109's, after spotting regroup then let the 109's toy with the fighters leaving the bombers for killers.

[puller]

The 262s don't really bother me in the setup...if anything...I would set aside small group of Ponies to hunt said CMs in 262s...but I like challenges...

Perd said it way more eloquently....and I was being a little sarcastic too....I didn't want the discussion to go where it did because of my response to guppy to begin with....sorry

[Arlo]

Currently, three people are complaining about jets.

Which three event participants are currently complaining about jets?

[perdue3]

Which three event participants are currently complaining about jets?

Most of the discussion in this thread is about jets, with Shuffler, Guppy, and yourself being the voices against the Me 262 in some fashion or another. It is okay to complain, I have complained my entire life. In fact, these events only improve through criticism. But, three is not overwhelming. My point was to put a number on the matter in order to point out that it is not overwhelming yet. It really makes no difference who is complaining as that is not the point.

Regardless, at this point we do not have an event because the Axis have 8 pilots. So, we need to step up our recruiting game.