Another 737 down

[ACE]

LOL you are clueless.

You did compare the 737 and refrigeration. That is why I posted about refrigeration.

Those of us raised long a go can do lots of things.  A/C is just one of many things I know how to work on.

Same here. Can fix anything in front of me as long as I got my tool bag and an electrical schematic. Don’t write off people younger than you

Believe you are the clueless one here shuffler. Using an analogy isn’t saying the two respective fields are the same. I believe you have lost some comprehension.

[bustr]

The FAA passed off the MAX design for flight based on US standards. Highest alt takeoff is tested for Denver at 5000ft while general pilot skill type expected to fly the fleet are very well trained ex-military and well trained company pilots on rigorous simulators at scheduled intervals over their flight careers.

American carriers have the best maintenance in the world. All the years the fleet has been active in the US they are not falling out of the sky left and right due to the MCAS. Suddenly two over seas companies with less rigorous training and maintenance have accidents who's companies chose to purchase the minimum package for cost saving like many do outside the US. And Southwest airlines only purchased the upgrade for the full Monti display package of the AOA in question in 2018, with no previous MAX falling out of the sky becasue that option was not active in the cockpits. Gosh the US is so lucky we have such well trained pilots while the rest of the world has to suffer....

In Ethiopia the airport was at 6000ft and the pilot quality and training sucked along with horrible maintenance. In Indonesia, a highly qualified pilot saved the MAX in question on an earlier flight by being a qualified pilot. Lion Air doesn't have a stellar record in pilot quality, training, or maintenance. So ACE is going all outrage on Boeing over what? They designed their jet for qualified pilots who knew how to fly when the garbage hit the fan. You don't get a parachute in a commercial airliner like our military pilots get so there is a life and death precident to be the best pilots on the planet. ACE's argument parses like Boeing was supposed to assume at some point their planes would be flown by 3rd graders and are an evil corporation for not building the plane so any 3rd grader can pilot a modern airliner. ACE also appears to have personal issues with large American corporations on top of that clouding his judgement. Airbus has a long list of crashes and incidents, many due to pilot error outside of the US while the MAX inside the US does not. Our pilots are very well trained, remember Sully and his Airbus landing it in the Hudson saving all his passengers and crew like the highly qualified Indonesian pilot did for Lion Air's MAX as a ride along.....

[ACE]

Bustr your assumptions of me are wrong. I don’t have anything against any particular company. I side with the FAA and the grounding of the plane until the issue is solved. The same entity (the FAA) that allowed the jet to fly also just cut its legs due to a safety concern. It’s so simple fix the AOA sensor issue and it’ll fly again.

[FLS]

... It’s so simple fix the AOA sensor issue and it’ll fly again.

Well that was the airline mechanic's job, fix the bad sensor, but they didn't do it.

The pilots decided to fly a plane with a bad sensor. Bad pilot decision.

[ACE]

Well that was the airline mechanic's job, fix the bad sensor, but they didn't do it.

The pilots decided to fly a plane with a bad sensor. Bad pilot decision.

You missed my point.

[DaveBB]

Or, the pilots could dummy down, look out the window, and FLY THE JET.

Does that work pretty good when flying in IFR conditions?

[Busher]

Does that work pretty good when flying in IFR conditions?

LOL - you're joking right? Qualified airline pilots couldn't care less whether its clear or IMC.

[FLS]

You missed my point.

I got your point. You think there is an AOA sensor issue not covered by required emergency procedure training.

The actual bad sensor issue existed on the previous flight and should have been fixed before the aircraft flew again.

[Busher]

You missed my point.

I appreciate what you want here but you won't seem to consider that even if manufacturers are mandated to keep adding to the safety features of commercial airplanes,  it will still for some time (I hope), require human intervention when the complexity of any of these systems fails to work as designed. Despite redundancy, design engineers have still not achieved "fail-safe" operation of aircraft systems.

[Puma44]

Does that work pretty good when flying in IFR conditions?

Without getting into an endless quagmire here, do you know what an ADI is, how it operates, and how pilots us it?

[Vraciu]

LOL - you're joking right? Qualified airline pilots couldn't care less whether its clear or IMC.

He’s not joking.  He seriously thinks that is an issue.   

[Toad]

Remember 2014 when they grounded all the Airbus A321s after Lufthansa 1829 lost 4000 feet due to an AOA malfunction? The bad AOA info triggered the HAL 900 computer programming and pushed the nose down despite the pilots having the side stick full aft. Luckily, they started at 30K+ so they managed to disable the HAL 9000 before they hit the dirt.

You don't remember that?

Well...yah.....because they never grounded the A321s even though this was an AOA malfunction that triggered a computer driven stall protection maneuver. Sound familiar?


And hey...how come modern jets don't have eleventy-seven AOA probes anyway? Then the computer could just use the ones that agreed.

[Puma44]

Often heard phrase after the 737 NGs (Next Generation) were on line: “Why’s it doing that?”, followed shortly thereafter by going into a manual mode so the jet would do what it was originally commanded to do.  A big learning curve early on but, disconnecting the automation or malfunction and the pilots flying the jet always had a successful and safe outcome.

[saggs]

the last paragraph of your post vraciu is very telling. Why is safety an “option”. That’s down right ignorant for Boeing to sell safety features as options.

Let me buy a truck for 80,000. Oh but for 85,000 you can have airbags.

To quote our resident expert it just gets ridiculous at some point.

Boeing made a mistake. Damn right they are paying for it. Sadly it was at the cost of several human lives.

 

Your own analogy discredits your argument, as there ARE many 'safety' features that are optional (at additional cost) in passenger vehicles.  What? You want Ford/GM/Chrysler to just throw in every feature for free, like you say Boeing should?

The 'feature' that was optional on the MAX, is not even an option on most airliners flying today. So... Does that make them "unsafe" aircraft?

The poor training here is just as big, or bigger a causal factor in this accident then aircraft design or software flaws.


After reading some of your earlier posts. I suggest you go read up on something known as the Dunning-Kruger effect.  You are a perfect example of it.

There is a reason why FAA safety employees and NTSB air accident investigators are guys with decades of experience in aviation, and not just guys off the street.

[saggs]

Same here. Can fix anything in front of me as long as I got my tool bag and an electrical schematic. Don’t write off people younger than you

Wow, so humble. 

OK, since you can fix ANYTHING with only a wiring schematic.  Here's one I had to fix the other day.  MD-82, JT8D-217 engines. #1 engine will not accelerate past idle.  OK, Mr. fix anything, how do I fix this? What's my first troubleshooting step?



Hint: You don't need the wiring schematic, it's not an electrical problem.