THAT Symbol

[Oldman731]

To say unequivocally that the CSA battle flags lacks any semblance of heritage is ignorant at best and abjectly retarded at worst.

Put it down to Arlo's inartful phrasing.  There's no question that the CSA battle flag reflects a certain heritage.  (For that matter, so does the, um, 1943 German flag...)  The issue is, what's the nature of that heritage?

- oldman

[Ramesis]

You talking about the swastika or the traitor flag?

- oldman

The Swastika

[Ramesis]

Ever been south, lots of Canadian flags and no one cares.

I live in Alabama... don't really care what flag is flown except the U.S. flag
 

[Arlo]

Put it down to Arlo's inartful phrasing.  There's no question that the CSA battle flag reflects a certain heritage.

Sorry, OM.

Precise phrasing. The CSA battle flag represents a time in our history when states seceded from the Union and went to war over slavery. It then represented the racial interests and cruelty of the KKK after the war. If anyone wants to pretend that it is a part of their heritage or ancestry in a manner that causes them to revere it then it says more about their character than their heritage. Keep it in museums and for historical recreations.

Same goes for flying/parading/displaying the Nazi swastika.

[Arlo]

One of my favorite movies, however, is still:



 

[Shuffler]

One of my favorite movies, however, is still:



 

Good Movie indeed.

[Shuffler]

Sorry, OM.

Precise phrasing. The CSA battle flag represents a time in our history when states seceded from the Union and went to war over slavery. It then represented the racial interests and cruelty of the KKK after the war. If anyone wants to pretend that it is a part of their heritage or ancestry in a manner that causes them to revere it then it says more about their character than their heritage. Keep it in museums and for historical recreations.

Same goes for flying/parading/displaying the Nazi swastika.

The democrats still exist today. Not so much in the south though. The south is still proud of their history. I have no problem with the flag even though I never fly it.

I have more issues with disrespecting our US and State flag being lowered for ever little thing. Should only be for the passage of Heads of State.

[captain1ma]

I find it comical that people get freaked out over a "symbol". after 80 years people still get all crazy over it. while I agree we should not repeat history, we shouldn't deter accuracy. banning an object doesn't make it go away, it just makes it go underground. that doesn't mean it still isn't there.

from a historical perspective when you're fighting a plane with a swastika on it, you're fighting the pilot, not the symbol. hes going to kill you, not the symbol. while I have no feeling about taking it out of the game or leaving it in, I don't know that not having it is going to cause 30,000 germans to suddenly join aces high. I hope that would be the case, but maybe too little too late.

just my 2 cents and for the record, I'm a German.

[Mister Fork]

...just my 2 cents and for the record, I'm a German.

...and we've never held that against you... yet 

If the Nazi movement died in 1945, we probably wouldn't give a rats arse about its symbol. Because it's still used today with white supremacists you cannot use it without the negative connotations still associated with the symbol, and rightly so.

My two boys are Jewish (Castilian background) and them seeing any Nazi symbol today represents a timeframe of the 1930's-1945 German political reference and the brutal regime it represented back then. Their mother and grandmother, however, would be a completely different story and their family history over the Spanish civil war and WWII would justify their positions - any use of the swastika brings back a lot of bad, brutal memories.

That said, I'm hoping that we move beyond the politically correct madness today and into a more tolerant society in the coming decades and that any symbology of the past is just that.

[Arlo]

If they weren't revered by hate groups -today- that might be a rational possibility.

[OldNitro]

The tyranny of the whiners.. The thin skinned blue bleeders..

When I was a kid, I built many airplane models that had the Hakenkreuz included in the decals..
Nobody even thought twice about it.. War comics like Sergeant Rock, also dispayed the unshowable apparition of thin skinned hell, PROMINENTLY.. It was about history, not about who snivels the loudest..

Geez, my dad was a WW2 vet, and he had no problem buying me German airplane models with the Hakenkreuz on it.. If he was alive now, he'd laugh at us!

 
 

[Arlo]

The tyranny of the whiners.. The thin skinned blue bleeders..

When I was a kid, I built many airplane models that had the Hakenkreuz included in the decals..
Nobody even thought twice about it.. War comics like Sergeant Rock, also dispayed the unshowable apparition of thin skinned hell, PROMINENTLY.. It was about history, not about who snivels the loudest..

Geez, my dad was a WW2 vet, and he had no problem buying me German airplane models with the Hakenkreuz on it.. If he was alive now, he'd laugh at us!

 
 

And how do you think he'd feel if you goose-stepped around the kitchen with a Nazi flag making the Nazi salute? You can lie about that but most all of us know you'd have a red bottom and be sniveling yourself.

[OldNitro]

One of my fav shows when I was a kid was Combat..
With Rick Jason and Vic Morrow..
I was shootin my GI Joes, with a Red Ryder BB Gun..
Didn't have bad guy uniforms back then..

These days, the blue bleeders, can't even stand the
sight of a Hakenkruez, or the they go into spasms..

It's so bad, that you can't have a decal on a model airplane!
That level of Pooz is pretty pathetic!

[Devil 505]

The tyranny of the whiners.. The thin skinned blue bleeders..

When I was a kid, I built many airplane models that had the Hakenkreuz included in the decals..
Nobody even thought twice about it.. War comics like Sergeant Rock, also dispayed the unshowable apparition of thin skinned hell, PROMINENTLY.. It was about history, not about who snivels the loudest..

Geez, my dad was a WW2 vet, and he had no problem buying me German airplane models with the Hakenkreuz on it.. If he was alive now, he'd laugh at us!

 
 

Great examples of the Hakenkreuz being used the right way.

Model planes with them are intended to represent the actual aircraft.

A comic book, movie, or video game with Nazi Germany as an explicit villain is also just fine because it is not only historically accurate but also it uses the viewer/player's knowledge of the evil perpetrated by the Nazis to create a sense of higher stakes and valor in fighting them. The hero fights the bad guys who are bad because... obviously.

Neither of these examples is very relevant to the use and pitfalls of allowing Nazi iconography in multiplayer video games.

[Arlo]

One of my fav shows when I was a kid was Combat..
With Rick Jason and Vic Morrow..
I was shootin my GI Joes, with a Red Ryder BB Gun..
Didn't have bad guy uniforms back then..

These days, the blue bleeders, can't even stand the
sight of a Hakenkruez, or the they go into spasms..

It's so bad, that you can't have a decal on a model airplane!
That level of Pooz is pretty pathetic!

Just miss the point. I doubt a single participant in this thread has spasms over decals. I doubt a single participant in this thread would faint if HT allowed it on skins. But we all know why it is the way it is. (You do, right?) So what does that leave us? The only posters crying are the ones that want it oh so bad and can't seem to get over it. Now, the aforementioned hate groups that adore those symbols would likely cry right alongside in sympathetic cause.