BREAKING - B-17G bomber crashed near Hartford

[saggs]

Coms

https://www.wwlp.com/news/top-stories/audio-b-17-crews-communication-with-bradley-tower-before-crashing/

https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=dU2XXGI_Ke0

[Vraciu]

Strange what people are saying about losing an engine as if that explains it all.  Something else had to have been a major contributor in the accident chain.  Losing 1 engine on 4 engine radial plane is a common occurrence, a 3 engine landing on a runway of that length should be routine and easy.  Curious if when they blew the bottles it extinguished the fire or not, I imagine a lingering fire warning could have distracted the crew, loss of SA, landing way short if they hit the ILS stanchion.

An engine fire is not something to be trifled with in a radial piston airplane like a B-17.   It can turn catastrophic VERY fast.  You can burn a wing spar to the failure point in a matter of a few minutes.    It all depends upon the nature of the fire.   Throw smoke into the cockpit and now you’ve got a big problem. 

I also don’t recall anyone saying that an engine problem explained it all.   None of us have the slightest clue what happened, just as the parrots squawking about the 737 Max during the early stages had no idea.    We will find out more as we go along.

[Shuffler]

An engine fire is not something to be trifled with in a radial piston airplane like a B-17.   It can turn catastrophic VERY fast.  You can burn a wing spar to the failure point in a matter of a few minutes.    It all depends upon the nature of the fire.   Throw smoke into the cockpit and now you’ve got a big problem. 

I also don’t recall anyone saying that an engine problem explained it all.   None of us have the slightest clue what happened, just as the parrots squawking about the 737 Max during the early stages had no idea.    We will find out more as we go along.

How true.....

[Busher]

Strange what people are saying about losing an engine as if that explains it all.  Something else had to have been a major contributor in the accident chain.  Losing 1 engine on 4 engine radial plane is a common occurrence, a 3 engine landing on a runway of that length should be routine and easy.  Curious if when they blew the bottles it extinguished the fire or not, I imagine a lingering fire warning could have distracted the crew, loss of SA, landing way short if they hit the ILS stanchion.

A close friend with years of C130 experience commented to me that a Herc will fly on one engine with 3 feathered, but it won't fly on 3 engines if the prop on one failed engine isn't or can't be feathered. With the lack of CVR and FDR information, I hope videos surface to help the NTSB.

[Vraciu]

A close friend with years of C130 experience commented to me that a Herc will fly on one engine with 3 feathered, but it won't fly on 3 engines if the prop on one failed engine isn't or can't be feathered. With the lack of CVR and FDR information, I hope videos surface to help the NTSB.

Good point.   The drag (and other adverse control/performance issues) from an unfeathered prop could be HUGE, especially if it is the left outboard.   

[Trev95]

I flew on Nine O' Nine last spring, very unfortunate. <S>  I posted some pictures of my flight on the AH3 Facebook page.

[Vraciu]

Scanner audio.   They lost number four. 

https://www.wwlp.com/news/top-stories/audio-b-17-crews-communication-with-bradley-tower-before-crashing/

Just say MAYDAY and turn back.   

[saggs]

Some eyewitnesses now saying they came in on only one engine with 1 caged and 2 trailing black smoke.

Can only be a fuel issue. NTSB update said they are looking into the type of fuel used.

So it would seem that somehow, somebody put JET A in the tanks.

[Vraciu]

Some eyewitnesses now saying they came in on only one engine with 1 caged and 2 trailing black smoke.

Can only be a fuel issue. NTSB update said they are looking into the type of fuel used.

So it would seem that somehow, somebody put JET A in the tanks.

Gawd I hope not.   Bob Hoover almost died for us to learn that lesson.   Dang.

[Devil 505]

Some eyewitnesses now saying they came in on only one engine with 1 caged and 2 trailing black smoke.

Can only be a fuel issue. NTSB update said they are looking into the type of fuel used.

So it would seem that somehow, somebody put JET A in the tanks.

Yipes.

[saggs]

Gawd I hope not.   Bob Hoover almost died for us to learn that lesson.   Dang.

I should add this is still just speculation. I'm just reading between the lines, and so often early eyewitness accounts turn out to be inaccurate.

[saggs]

An engine fire is not something to be trifled with in a radial piston airplane like a B-17.   It can turn catastrophic VERY fast. 

Oh yes, I concur. Still unclear if there was a fire, it was my first thought when the crew said "got #4"  "blow it out" on the radio. My mind went to "got" a fire and "blowing" the fire bottles.  But with more info I think that that may have been an incorrect speculation.

Read today that the F.E. survived, I think that should make it a pretty straightforward investigation, as no one would know better then him what those engines where doing, and fuel testing shouldn't take long.

I happen to know a bit about big radial powered airplanes.

[Vraciu]

Oh yes, I concur. Still unclear if there was a fire, it was my first thought when the crew said "got #4"  "blow it out" on the radio. My mind went to "got" a fire and "blowing" the fire bottles.  But with more info I think that that may have been an incorrect speculation.

Read today that the F.E. survived, I think that should make it a pretty straightforward investigation, as no one would know better then him what those engines where doing, and fuel testing shouldn't take long.

I happen to know a bit about big radial powered airplanes.

As do I, if you consider a PBJ-1J or T-28 big. 

I posted the audio.   I didn’t hear “blow it out” but I’ll listen again. 

Hopefully the Engineer can sort it for us. 

[saggs]

As do I, if you consider a PBJ-1J or T-28 big.

Sure, it's all relative. Not as big as what I work on, but very very cool.

Did PBJs run 2800s?


EDIT: Really cool was a couple weeks ago we had the Silver Spitfire in our hangar for a few days, they're doing a "1st spitfire around the world" flight. Was neat to talk to the crew and pilots they had with it.

[Vraciu]

Sure, it's all relative. Not as big as what I work on, but very very cool.

Did PBJs run 2800s?


EDIT: Really cool was a couple weeks ago we had the Silver Spitfire in our hangar for a few days, they're doing a "1st spitfire around the world" flight. Was neat to talk to the crew and pilots they had with it.

2600s but I forget the dash number.    Maybe it will come to me.