Author Topic: BREAKING - B-17G bomber crashed near Hartford  (Read 8714 times)

Offline APDrone

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Re: BREAKING - B-17G bomber crashed near Hartford
« Reply #60 on: October 05, 2019, 08:32:47 PM »
This tears me up.

Got to see it when they stopped in Omaha 9 years ago.

Pics here:

http://photosbyavery.com/general/thumbnails.php?album=2

Such a tragedy.



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Offline Vraciu

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Re: BREAKING - B-17G bomber crashed near Hartford
« Reply #61 on: October 05, 2019, 08:40:14 PM »
Per Airliners.net, the B-17 lost engine #3 and then #4 shortly after.  I saw the flight tracker, the plane never got above 125mph (knts?).  Struck multiple lights and an ILS stanchion coming in for a landing, which caused it to crash into the de-icing building.

I read elsewhere they made the runway but then veered off.

I am quite surprised there aren’t a dozen videos of it online already.   Surely there is at least some surveillance video that will show what happened if not why.

Edit in: NTSB spox says they hit approach lights 1000 feet short.   

https://boston.cbslocal.com/2019/10/03/bradley-airport-collings-foundation-b17-bomber-crash-connecticut/

Let this be a reminder to any of you big airplane drivers who think of “ducking under” on a visual.    Approach light stanchions are frangible but they can ruin your day any way, and while YOU might be above them your airplane may not be.     
« Last Edit: October 05, 2019, 08:49:06 PM by Vraciu »
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Offline Oldman731

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Re: BREAKING - B-17G bomber crashed near Hartford
« Reply #62 on: October 05, 2019, 11:26:39 PM »
I think he was primarily a pilot on the B-24.


Primarily, but he was qualified in both.  He had some nice comparisons between the two.

- oldman

Offline Vraciu

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Re: BREAKING - B-17G bomber crashed near Hartford
« Reply #63 on: October 06, 2019, 08:38:16 AM »

Primarily, but he was qualified in both.  He had some nice comparisons between the two.

- oldman

I recall his Type Rating/LOA for PIC being on the B-24.   

There’s one guy whose voice we could use on this one.
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: BREAKING - B-17G bomber crashed near Hartford
« Reply #64 on: October 06, 2019, 10:14:59 AM »
I recall his Type Rating/LOA for PIC being on the B-24.   

There’s one guy whose voice we could use on this one.

Yes... he left some large boots to fill in the community.
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Offline Puma44

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Re: BREAKING - B-17G bomber crashed near Hartford
« Reply #65 on: October 06, 2019, 06:41:11 PM »
Collings Foundation B-25 tribute to 909.

https://m.youtube.com/watch?feature=youtu.be&v=9g5TTGTuATA



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Offline Vraciu

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Re: BREAKING - B-17G bomber crashed near Hartford
« Reply #66 on: October 06, 2019, 07:06:55 PM »
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Offline Shuffler

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Re: BREAKING - B-17G bomber crashed near Hartford
« Reply #67 on: October 06, 2019, 08:03:31 PM »
Man oh man......
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Offline DaddyAce

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Re: BREAKING - B-17G bomber crashed near Hartford
« Reply #68 on: October 06, 2019, 10:34:37 PM »
Wow, just caught up on this tragic news!   I toured that bird a couple times, and caught a ride on their B-24 and logged an hour flight time in their TF-51-D "Toulouse Nuts".  What a sad loss, and those poor families!

Offline Puma44

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Re: BREAKING - B-17G bomber crashed near Hartford
« Reply #69 on: October 14, 2019, 10:06:35 AM »
I asked a friend who is typed in the B-17 what his take is on the incident.  He said a possible scenario could be a shut down of the wrong engine with the bad engine still windmilling unfeathered.  He said the drag would be a big issue.  In answer to my question, he said it would be controllable with two on the same side properly feathered and shut down. He said other than the possibility of being misfueled (which the NTSB has recently said that wasn’t the case) there’s  not much word on the street.



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Offline Puma44

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Offline snugar109

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Re: BREAKING - B-17G bomber crashed near Hartford
« Reply #71 on: October 15, 2019, 05:32:00 PM »
Thanks for the update Puma. Still a rough read when the initial details are out. 500 feet's not a whole lot of room in a large bird like that I bet.

Offline Mister Fork

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Re: BREAKING - B-17G bomber crashed near Hartford
« Reply #72 on: October 15, 2019, 05:35:16 PM »
https://www.scribd.com/document/430408585/NTSB-preliminary-report-Bradley-International-Airport-WWII-B-17-Crash
By all accounts, there is nothing out of the ordinary about the crew or the airplane. Both pilots had accumulated over 36,000 hours of flying - so experience isn't an issue. Lead pilot was also an airplane mechanic, and the other was an instructor and flight engineer - so quite the talented aircrew.

Engines 1,2, and 3 had 0 hours of operation since overhaul, while engine 4 had over 800 hours since last revision. I'm sure that is where they'll focus. It also looks like flaps were retracted on landing - not sure if that was an issue though it was tough to determine the exact status as the cabin and majority of the wings were destroyed by the post-crash fire.  No concerns over fuel either.

Still sad about the loss of life and of the beautiful warbird. :(
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Offline Vraciu

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Re: BREAKING - B-17G bomber crashed near Hartford
« Reply #73 on: October 15, 2019, 06:39:53 PM »
I’ve said it before and I’ll say it again.   I am more afraid of a 70+ year old pilot than a 70+ year old airplane.   Could the former be an issue?    Possibly.    Am I saying it is?   No.   But I’ve seen it before.

I can’t see a reason why a B-17 at well-below combat weight cannot climb on three engines with one feathered. 

The issue is hitting the ground/approach lights well short of the runway.   Why?
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Offline Puma44

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Re: BREAKING - B-17G bomber crashed near Hartford
« Reply #74 on: October 15, 2019, 10:59:53 PM »
By all accounts, there is nothing out of the ordinary about the crew or the airplane. Both pilots had accumulated over 36,000 hours of flying - so experience isn't an issue. Lead pilot was also an airplane mechanic, and the other was an instructor and flight engineer - so quite the talented aircrew.

Engines 1,2, and 3 had 0 hours of operation since overhaul, while engine 4 had over 800 hours since last revision. I'm sure that is where they'll focus. It also looks like flaps were retracted on landing - not sure if that was an issue though it was tough to determine the exact status as the cabin and majority of the wings were destroyed by the post-crash fire.  No concerns over fuel either.

Still sad about the loss of life and of the beautiful warbird. :(

If I read it correctly, number four was feathered and number three was somewhere between feathered and low pitch.  That could have increased drag to a point that they couldn’t hold the 500’ agl that they had and drifted down until initial contact with the approach lights 1,000’ from the runway, increasing drag/airspeed decay more until touchdown 500’ from the runway.  The question is what caused the right hand drift to final impact,.......blown tire, collapsed gear, wing drop at touchdown, etc, etc?.......So many questions. 

It would be interesting to see what the throttle quadrant looked like at the end.  They certainly didn’t have altitude and time to deal with what caused the initial engine problem.



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