WWII: 1940-1943 (Request for Comment)

[CptTrips]

Let's say, for arguments sake, Hitech signaled he wasn't against the idea if I felt like doing it.  Let's say, for arguments sake, I felt like jumping back into the meat-grinder for 6-8 months.    Would there be any real interest in another AI-Augmented WWII arena?  Would anyone ever fly in it?  For those who have tried WWI: Western Front, would there be any desire for a WWII version along those lines?

WW1WF gets a little traffic, but not much.  I suspect that is largely because most players aren't that in to WWI.  Or was there something else about it that wasn't fun?  Or is it because the AI environment is not fun?  Is the basic idea of AI-Augmented side arena a dead-end? 

In WW1WF, I only had 2 aircraft per country to work with and no bombs or bombers.  I think a WWII arena would have a lot more variety of targets and action.  I guess I'd like to get a sense of the community.  I'm not expecting to compete with the Melee, but I don't want to waste our time either.   Would we be?  Now would be a good time to learn that. 




Basically, what I was thinking was a 256x map divided in to multiple zone for various Early/Mid War matchups.  This is a fantasy terrain meant to be evocative of those areas of combat, but not actual realistic representations.

Dividing the map left to right, every to the left of middle is Early War and everything to the right is Mid War.  Dividing the map upper and lower half, everything in the upper half is European, everything in the lower half is CBI/Pacific.

Permanent, overlapping perpetual AI scheduled missions (just like WW1WF) being run with the appropriate planes in each AO.  Fighter sweeps, bombers with escorts and interception.  Jabo raids.  etc. 

I don't care if a player flies all the way over to an incongruent AO.  If that floats their boat, fine.  The AO are just defining what the AI will respect.  The goal would be to provide the players a buffet they could move around in and sample various era-AO-specific plane match-ups they don't often get to enjoy in the Melee.

Below is a sloppy mock-up to help you visualize what I'm thinking:

Thoughts? 

[snugar109]

We were just discussing something like this last night on the radio. How we like the FSO and Scenarios so much that it would be cool to have an arena that was more mission focused like they are. Not having to go searching for a fight but to know a fight will show up eventually and not degrade into an avoid the ack to get the con thing or have 3 different attacks going on at 3 different places with varying numbers to each attack that we might end up getting one base.
I've never used the WW1WF just because I am not into WW1 plane sets so that's why I am not fully understanding the AI part about it, but if it turns out to be something like a running scenario split into those different areas then I know an entire squad that would fly there. Having era plane match ups would be awesome too. I like the early/mid war planes but if you take up and early era plane in the MA then ur toast in about 5 minutes against the speed demon planes. Taking up era planes and not being able to take the risks we take in the MA because of those later plane sets makes for a better experience to me but that's just me.
Great idea 

[Mister Fork]

CptTrip - so what you're proposing is a large map - each divided by certain plane sets where we have staged missions running on a continuous basis?

Can you go through what a typical sector would look like? 

[CptTrips]

CptTrip - so what you're proposing is a large map - each divided by certain plane sets where we have staged missions running on a continuous basis?

Can you go through what a typical sector would look like?

Snugar, Mister Fork,


Sorry.  I kinda wrote that up from a prospective of asking someone who had tried WW1WF, if they would be interested in a WWII version.  If you haven't tried WW1WF I should provide more detail.

The user experience would be sort of a hybrid between Melee/Mission Arena/Scenario.   The AI would be running min-scenarios on each AO using the mission system.  But you interact with the arena more like the Melee in that you can spawn where and when you want and just take off and interact with AI.  So no waiting around for a mission to start like in the Mission Arena.  It is a two-sided Axis v Allied matchup.

You would be limited to the appropriate aircraft for the era and AO at each field, but it is up to you when and were to spawn and take off and go look for trouble.  And AI never run for their ack.  If you enter their activation range, they will attack and fight you to the death.  (Well not bombers. )

Example....

Lets say I get tired of chasing runners in the Melee, but instead of just logging for the night I decide to go play in WWII: 1940-1943 a bit.
I enter the arena an say.."Hmmmm let's see...I feel like some Mid-War Us v Japan Pacific action.  I pan over to that side of of the map and examine the radar.  Hundreds of aircraft are in flight and fighting all across the map.  All day, all night.  24/7. Holidays too.  AI never rest.

Then I see the AI system post a message in the text buffer:

"[Allied Command]  Alert!  Coast watchers have spotted a large Japanese force heading toward our port P46.  20+ aircraft.  Angels 15. ETA 5 min.  Request all available fighters to defend."

Ohh that sounds fun.  I can spawn at A123 right near there.  In the hangar I scroll through what planes are available for US mid-war...OK, I'll take a P-38J.  I take-off and and spot a flight of four F4U-1 AI already heading in that direction to intercept the attack.  I decide to follow them in.  We catch the attackers right outside the port and engage, but some of the diver bombers slip though and hit the docks.  We eventually mop them up. 

Next I launch again from the same base in a F6F-5 and head out over the water.  I run across a 4 v 4 AI fight already in progress.  F4U-1 vs Zeros.  I dive in and get shot down.  Drat. 

Enough fun and sun.  Next I go over to the Finland area and join in some AI fighter sweeps and fights I-16 vs Brewsters.

Or maybe I go to the BoB and fly 109 escort for AI HE-111 bombers hitting London.

Etc, etc.

The AI are running constant missions fighting themselves even when you are not around.  You can launch anytime, in any AO, with the appropriate aircraft and join in the on-going action.

[TequilaChaser]

Sounds interesting....

[CptTrips]

CptTrip - so what you're proposing is a large map - each divided by certain plane sets where we have staged missions running on a continuous basis?

To answer your question more directly....sorta. 

• 256x256 mile map divided into separate era-AO. 
  
• Each AO limited to era-region specific planesets.
  
• AI are running staged mission on a continual 24/7 basis.
  
• You can free-spawn and join in at any point on an ad hoc basis.

[snugar109]

Ah gotcha, thanks for the clarification on how it would run CptTrips. So an AI war all the time with the ability to join either side and help out the AI in the constant battle. Still sounds fun. So I would not know whether I am up against an AI or a real pilot on the other side correct?
Very interesting.

[FLS]

It would be interesting to know how successful the average players are in the Western Front arena. 

I think a WW2 AI arena is a good idea for a volunteer project.

I wonder if AI arenas by HTC, on the pay side, would give new players a better experience than the MA and be more popular.

Most of the games I've seen with the sort on training missions and yellow overlays discussed recently also have different levels of difficulty. The MA is always set on EXTREME. It's a tough start.

[CptTrips]

Ah gotcha, thanks for the clarification on how it would run CptTrips. So an AI war all the time with the ability to join either side and help out the AI in the constant battle. Still sounds fun. So I would not know whether I am up against an AI or a real pilot on the other side correct?
Very interesting.

Exactly.  Well, you might be able to tell if it's a human if it breaks and runs for it's ack protection.   

If I do it right, it should really feel you spawned in an arena full of players.  Taking off.  Landing.  On patrol. Attacking targets.  Dog-fighting furballs.  It should have the feeling of an on-going organic environment that was fighting a war when you walked in and will be continuing after you leave.  It is amazing too how much emergent behavior you get.     

As opposed to a single, sterile set piece mission in an otherwise empty world you'll get running a single mission offline or Mission Arena.


Even if you don't like WWI stuff, I'd recomend giving WW1WF 30 min of your time to get a glimpse of what I'm talking about.  Of course I had very very little to work with in the WWI plane-set. 

 

[snugar109]

Exactly.  Well, you might be able to tell if it's a human if it breaks and runs for it's ack protection.

I'll do what I do now, let them fly around low in the ack and find something else to do

I'm still working up to average but I will jump into WW1WF tonight to get a better idea of the AI stuff.

[CptTrips]

It would be interesting to know how successful the average players are in the Western Front arena. 

I'll occasionally pop my head in if I see someone on there and see who it is.  If I don't recognize the name, I'll check their stats. 

A lot appear to be non-subscribers.  Which I consider a good thing.  Kinda what I intended.

A lot of people, maybe especially young players, may be too intimidated to go into the Melee.  An F2P AI arena gives them somewhere to go where they can actually do something.  However, getting shot down by AI doesn't have the same embarrassment factor as getting dominated by a human.  So maybe that is a good place for people to build up their confidence to the point where they eventually what to give the Melee a try. 









 

[TwinBoom]

interesting
 I want to see ai bomber missions in main arena be nice to intercept

[Trev95]

I would love to see something like this take shape.  I would be awesome to fly my lumbering B17s around with a huge AI formation.  The big thing that sells me on this arena is the exactly what CptTrips says "the AI never rest".  As much as I would like to see these AO's in their own servers for the sake of consolidating numbers I could get behind it.  The chat might get really crazy but that would be small price to pay for such an arena.  If it were free to play that would be a great way to draw in new players.  I can say from personal experience there is nothing more frustrating for a new player they flying for 5 minutes to get to a fight only to get shwacked by a P51 diving from no ware.  A arena like this would give a much more PVE experience.

On a side note: CaptTrips how feasible would something like this be to make (assuming that hightech gave it the go ahead.)?

[CptTrips]

On a side note: CaptTrips how feasible would something like this be to make (assuming that hightech gave it the go ahead.)?

It will certainly be a ton of work, but I don't know of any special problems.  We know the AI-Augmented arena concept works now. 

Hitech already gave me all the tools I think I need during WW1WF development.  And I think we found and he fixed all bugs in the system that would block me.   I don't even think it would really take any of Hitech's valuable time at this point.  I think I have everything I need, other than eventually him configuring a test server for when I get to the point of building schedules, and flipping in visible when I'm ready to go live.  I think he would describe those as fairly trivial tasks.

Which is why after all the work and learning we did for WW1WF, it would seem a shame to me not to complete the book-ends and do the WWII arena to complete the set.   


Other than that, I just would need to sit for 6 months and grind it out. 



 

[RAG]

This would be awesome! yes please