Two sides

[Ack-Ack]

You got data to back you up?  Because I have thousands of canceled subscriptions to back ME.   And that number grows each month.   

No you don't.  You don't know why other players have quit, you only thin you do so you can try to "lend" some data to your opinion.  The only ones that know are HiTech, through his exit surveys or the players themselves that quit.  Unless you are trying to claim that every player that has quit the game contacts you and tells you why.

[CptTrips]

I for one am happy that shorter base distance is being tested and implemented. When players cannot defend a field because of far distances, it creates the horde effect. Plus more people just want to hop right into the fight. If you want to grab alt and get alt, a back base is right there for you. It works much better with lower #s. The biggest problem was players flying for 10-15 minutes. Then to get ganged immediately and die. Rinse and repeat. It gets old. But, players who can jump into the fight more quickly, dont care about dying as much.

I agree.  This is the next best option to compensate for the incorrect decision not to consider 2-sides. 

I'm torn on the issue of base count.  Part of me says that should be reduced proportionally with the smaller player count. 

The other part thinks maybe a lot of closely spaced fields might promote whack-a-mole fights.  Which I don't consider a bad thing. I'd rather see a bunch of 4x4 whack-a-mole fights spread across a lot of closely spaced fields for lots of fast, small scale action.  Instead of mass hoards trying to muscle their way into fewer fields.   

But too many will spread out the fight too much.    

But reducing the number can roll maps faster so less boredom.   

With tightly spaced fields, you'll probably need a hub and spoke design so the strats and HQ are flug farther out from the central cluster. 

[CptTrips]

COBOL 

That was pre-history before writing.  Bear skins and stone knives.  They only learned about it from cave paintings in France.  Who knows how it should be spelled. 

Actually I bet it is a quite lucrative gig if you could still find one.  Who else this side of a pair of Depends remembers it?

 

[Edit]  I actually did have one class in it at school, but i think it was a kind of practical joke.    Though I still might prefer it over LISP. 

[Vraciu]

That is a load of BS.  When I played WB (before your time), balance was a serious issue and a major source of player complaints.

Operative word BEFORE my time.   It was not an issue when I played.

Next!

You also don't have any actionable metrics that prove 2 aides will alleviate the issue of side unbalance.  You are not privy to the metrics to prove your point.  You might think 2 sides will fix things but again, you don't have the metrics to prove it.  Saying it worked in another game isn't metrics a developer will take action on.  It would be like me saying 2 sidea don't work because of my experience in playing WW20L, in which the Allied aide usually out numbered the Axis aide by a large margin that often left the Allied side no one to fight.

The allies usually outnumber the axis in games like that because allied rides are more popular.   In WBs it took players of goodwill to make it work, including guys like me who weren't fans of axis planes, but we did.   The rise of the Main made it a moot issue.

Hitech has all the balancing mechanisms he needs to sort it out.   You win the war types can horde in your junk rides while we who love the fight will have plenty of targets.  Win-win.

And I have more than enough metrics to prove that what we have doesn't work.

So.  Keep up the excuses, sparky.  You're still wrong. 

/Discussion

[Vraciu]

No you don't.  You don't know why other players have quit, you only thin you do so you can try to "lend" some data to your opinion.  The only ones that know are HiTech, through his exit surveys or the players themselves that quit.  Unless you are trying to claim that every player that has quit the game contacts you and tells you why.

Yeah, that crescendo of voices saying why they're leaving don't count for a thing.

Anyone who is not a dogmatic true believer devoid of objectivity can make a fairly accurate guess as to the top five or ten reasons why people are leaving.    It's pretty obvious.    (The bigger riddle is why new players don't stay.  That nut is a bit tougher, but many of the reasons are the same.)

"Exit surveys."

LMFAO.  I used to take surveys for a living.   Garbage in garbage out.   It's a very specific science to gather useful info should you do it right, and the response rate is always dismal by default, requiring precise statistical analysis to turn it into anything of value.

"Sell crazy someplace else," as the movie line goes.   "We're all stocked up here."

(Now if you will excuse me I must bandage my ankle.)

[DmonSlyr]

I agree.  This is the next best option to compensate for the incorrect decision not to consider 2-sides. 

I'm torn on the issue of base count.  Part of me says that should be reduced proportionally with the smaller player count. 

The other part thinks maybe a lot of closely spaced fields might promote whack-a-mole fights.  Which I don't consider a bad thing. I'd rather see a bunch of 4x4 whack-a-mole fights spread across a lot of closely spaced fields for lots of fast, small scale action.  Instead of mass hoards trying to muscle their way into fewer fields.   

But too many will spread out the fight too much.    

But reducing the number can roll maps faster so less boredom.   

With tightly spaced fields, you'll probably need a hub and spoke design so the strats and HQ are flug farther out from the central cluster. 

Some of the newer small maps have been much more successful in retaining #s. I saw 140+ last month, even with FSO. 13 miles is perfect with a tank field near the mix.

Adding a few CVs in there makes extra fun!

If you can get 3-4, even 5 big fights scattered around the map at all times. That should be the key. During the off hours, it helps when all 3 sides can have access to each other.  Maps that don't allow this retain less #s as the night gets later. 

[Canspec]

I have read that just having two sided would be good for the game.

I am on Knights for years i would opt to get rid of this side as they are on the hole rubbish in game.

 ....Zack is awesome........

[guncrasher]

Yeah, that crescendo of voices saying why they're leaving don't count for a thing.

Anyone who is not a dogmatic true believer devoid of objectivity can make a fairly accurate guess as to the top five or ten reasons why people are leaving.    It's pretty obvious.    (The bigger riddle is why new players don't stay.  That nut is a bit tougher, but many of the reasons are the same.)

"Exit surveys."

LMFAO.  I used to take surveys for a living.   Garbage in garbage out.   It's a very specific science to gather useful info should you do it right, and the response rate is always dismal by default, requiring precise statistical analysis to turn it into anything of value.

"Sell crazy someplace else," as the movie line goes.   "We're all stocked up here."

(Now if you will excuse me I must bandage my ankle.)

how many players have come to you and tell you why they're leaving?  you dont have to be exact, just a rough estimate.  I can say that players are leaving because they would rather spend the money on street corn and I bet I would have the exact same data as you.  zero.

as for new guys not staying, it's been said many times that tens of thousands have downloaded the game and played for 15 minutes more or less.  maybe they couldnt figure out how to set up their controls, then again I only played about 3 games in world of warplanes while in beta and quit because I couldnt figure out the controls either.

also played world of tanks, still have several hundred gold, millions of credits, several 10 tier tanks and I quit.  tried to get back and it was the same thing.  people running in to cause as much damage and die within 3 minutes.  they have millions of players but there's times when I still had to wait 5 minutes to get into a match that would last less than the waiting time.

so having said that, it doesnt make me an expert on why people dont stay.  seen a few players spawn and sit there, I have talked to them on range and explained how they can talk back to me and nothing no feed back.

also remember that back when we had 600 players, players would make fun of the young people, calling them squeekers and whatever.  and then they complain that young people arent interested in this game.

vraciu if you forget for a moment that you are a long time player and think yourself as new.  you will figure out a thing or two about why things are the way they are.  not saying some things shouldnt change, but most of the things you think should change, could actually make things worst.

not everybody here loves to just furball, there's some that mostly drive tanks, others that enjoy bombing.  with a map 1/2 the size of the smallest one we have, what would happen to the bombers? the thing is to have a balance between pure furballers, those who like to furball but at the same time take bases and those who love to bomb and gv.


semp

[Ciaphas]

not everybody here loves to just furball, there's some that mostly drive tanks, others that enjoy bombing.  with a map 1/2 the size of the smallest one we have, what would happen to the bombers? the thing is to have a balance between pure furballers, those who like to furball but at the same time take bases and those who love to bomb and gv.

Well the following could work:

• Smaller map sizes (32x32)
• Smaller number of Field types
• Closer proximity for certain field types (ie... Small Airfields and Vehicle Bases
• Strategically placed field types to support Small Airfields and Vehicle Bases (ie.. Medium and Large Airfields)
• 2 to 4 Ports per side
• Strat structure placement and make the strats something worth defending or attacking
• Place Tank towns at terrain choke points and within reasonable distance between front line feilds
• Limit the bomber plane set in regards to certain field types (ie... Small field: no bombers/heavy attack, only light/medium attack aircraft, medium fields: light and medium bombers, heavy attack and Large and Super large fields: all bombers.

[Ack-Ack]

"Exit surveys."

LMFAO.  I used to take surveys for a living.   Garbage in garbage out.   It's a very specific science to gather useful info should you do it right, and the response rate is always dismal by default, requiring precise statistical analysis to turn it into anything of value.

Exit surveys are a very important business intelligence tool in the video game industry, especially for online games, like MMO's.  It will provide the necessary incite to see why players are leaving your game. 

Please show the verifiable data you have that proves thousands, like you've claimed, to have left the game because of the 3 country set up.

[SilverZ06]

That was pre-history before writing.  Bear skins and stone knives.  They only learned about it from cave paintings in France.  Who knows how it should be spelled. 

Actually I bet it is a quite lucrative gig if you could still find one.  Who else this side of a pair of Depends remembers it?

 

[Edit]  I actually did have one class in it at school, but i think it was a kind of practical joke.    Though I still might prefer it over LISP. 

I had to take a COBOL class for my AS in programming several years ago. It is a rather unique language.

[turt21]

not everybody here loves to just furball, there's some that mostly drive tanks, others that enjoy bombing.  with a map 1/2 the size of the smallest one we have, what would happen to the bombers? the thing is to have a balance between pure furballers, those who like to furball but at the same time take bases and those who love to bomb and gv.


semp
[/quote]

Now were getting somewhere. Those of us that suck at furballing get frustrated at the effort put into that. My first choice is a tank, then bombers even a TBM if I get bored. Fighters is just a quick frustrating death for me.

[Vraciu]

Exit surveys are a very important business intelligence tool in the video game industry, especially for online games, like MMO's.  It will provide the necessary incite to see why players are leaving your game. 

If you don't ask the right questions the data is irrelevant.

Please show the verifiable data you have that proves thousands, like you've claimed, to have left the game because of the 3 country set up.

Look around you.   

Thousands have left and hundreds more will follow.   There are numerous causes.   Nobody said the ONLY cause was three countries.    It is a contributing factor AT THIS STAGE (and for many months prior).

Enjoy living in your bubble.    I'm sure all Hitech needs to do is listen to people like YOU.    Then all will be fine.  /sarcastic blue

[Vraciu]

how many players have come to you and tell you why they're leaving?  you dont have to be exact, just a rough estimate.  I can say that players are leaving because they would rather spend the money on street corn and I bet I would have the exact same data as you.  zero.

as for new guys not staying, it's been said many times that tens of thousands have downloaded the game and played for 15 minutes more or less.  maybe they couldnt figure out how to set up their controls, then again I only played about 3 games in world of warplanes while in beta and quit because I couldnt figure out the controls either.

also played world of tanks, still have several hundred gold, millions of credits, several 10 tier tanks and I quit.  tried to get back and it was the same thing.  people running in to cause as much damage and die within 3 minutes.  they have millions of players but there's times when I still had to wait 5 minutes to get into a match that would last less than the waiting time.

so having said that, it doesnt make me an expert on why people dont stay.  seen a few players spawn and sit there, I have talked to them on range and explained how they can talk back to me and nothing no feed back.

also remember that back when we had 600 players, players would make fun of the young people, calling them squeekers and whatever.  and then they complain that young people arent interested in this game.

vraciu if you forget for a moment that you are a long time player and think yourself as new.  you will figure out a thing or two about why things are the way they are.  not saying some things shouldnt change, but most of the things you think should change, could actually make things worst.

not everybody here loves to just furball, there's some that mostly drive tanks, others that enjoy bombing.  with a map 1/2 the size of the smallest one we have, what would happen to the bombers? the thing is to have a balance between pure furballers, those who like to furball but at the same time take bases and those who love to bomb and gv.


semp

Balance is a chimera.  It's obviously not working because people are leaving any way.

All of this is irrelevant.   Hitech has his reasons so we have to deal with things as they are.  We must find a way to retain those players that leave after fifteen minutes.    Discussing things that are set in stone is a waste of time.  We need to focus on retention.

[Vraciu]

Well the following could work:

• Smaller map sizes (32x32)
• Smaller number of Field types
• Closer proximity for certain field types (ie... Small Airfields and Vehicle Bases
• Strategically placed field types to support Small Airfields and Vehicle Bases (ie.. Medium and Large Airfields)
• 2 to 4 Ports per side
• Strat structure placement and make the strats something worth defending or attacking
• Place Tank towns at terrain choke points and within reasonable distance between front line feilds
• Limit the bomber plane set in regards to certain field types (ie... Small field: no bombers/heavy attack, only light/medium attack aircraft, medium fields: light and medium bombers, heavy attack and Large and Super large fields: all bombers.

These are interesting ideas.