This Game Dies Because

[Ciaphas]

Does that matter? 
The question wasn't about player base size.  The question was about whether there were other games with complexity comparable to Aces High, right?

It kind of does matter, that game is based off of a skillset that most already have. You know, driving a vehicle. There is a big difference... .

[CptTrips]

It kind of does matter, that game is based off of a skillset that most already have. You know, driving a vehicle. There is a big difference... .

That only affects the "on-ramp" on how easy it is for new players to start playing.  That is only the initial complexity.

The other question is, does it take less "skill" and talent to be a top competitor in IRracing than it does in Aces High?  That would be max complexity.

I think there are games that have as much max complexity as Aces High, even though they require different skill-sets, and may have a better on-ramp.

 

[Ciaphas]

That only affects the "on-ramp" on how easy it is for new players to start playing.  That is only the initial complexity.

The other question is, does it take less "skill" and talent to be a top competitor in IRracing than it does in Aces High?  That would be max complexity.

I think there are games that have as much max complexity as Aces High, even though they require different skill-sets, and may have a better on-ramp.

 

Ah, see it's part of the initial complexity that hand walks some to the exit. If you join Iracing, you may not be some super star racer but you won't be a complete fish out of water either.

[CptTrips]

Ah, see it's part of the initial complexity that hand walks some to the exit. If you join Iracing, you may not be some super start racer but you won't be a complete fish out of water either.

Yeah.

Take Chess for instance.  You can  teach anyone the basic rules of movement in about 15 minutes.  It's quite a bit harder for them to go on to become a World Grand Master.  Initial complexity is fairly low, max complexity is extraordinarily high.

Some games, while having plenty of max complexity, enjoy the advantage of having sufficiently low initial complexity that there is a smooth on-ramp.  Like you said, most people drive cars, most people have played FPS games along the way.  Games like that let players jump right in and start seeing incremental improvement immediately. The come in with the basics baked-in and may play for days before starting to learn particulars.  It was weeks before I ever started Googling info on BF4.  I could pretty much wing it with reasonable success before that, from the second I loaded it up. However, consistently placing on the top 5 of the score board takes a lot more time and effort and learning and practice.

Probably a lower percentage of players trying Aces High have flown combat flight sims with a joystick.  It's been a long time since the hey-days of AW.  Other online games have become the norm.  That's why so many never get off the runway.

Lowering the on-ramp for Aces High would help a lot. 

However, there still must be other problems as well unless we think we have converted a high percentage of every IL2 player who has ever tried AH.

[CAV]

It kind of does matter, that game is based off of a skillset that most already have. You know, driving a vehicle.

One would think it would translate well... but driving to the store for beer isn't the same thing as green flag pit stops at Talladega....in a crowd.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZgORmEWh9E&t=920s

[Ciaphas]

One would think it would translate well... but driving to the store for beer isn't the same thing as green flag pit stops at Talladega....in a crowd.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZgORmEWh9E&t=920s

It still requires the same basic skill set (driving a vehicle), the "wining" skills are learned as you go.

[CptTrips]

One would think it would translate well... but driving to the store for beer isn't the same thing as green flag pit stops at Talladega....in a crowd.



https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=PZgORmEWh9E&t=920s

Wow.  Those graphics.

For a second, I didn't realize that was a sim. 

[Ciaphas]

Wow.  Those graphics.

For a second, I didn't realize that was a sim. 

 

[Vraciu]

Wow.  Those graphics.

For a second, I didn't realize that was a sim. 

Wow.  Unimpressed.    I was expecting more...

[TheBug]

I have been playing Aces High since the first weeks of the Beta.
I have spent 15 years playing the Battlefield series.
The majority of my gaming has been those two games for the last 20 years.

In the whole, compared something like Battlefield 4, Aces High is no more complex, IMHO.  Different skills and knowledge, but I've played both, it's not more complex.

The issue is that a lot less players have played other combat flight sims, and so many more players have played one version of FPS or another.  So it is a lot easier for many to jump in BF4 and play well enough to at least have fun, than it is for many to jump into Aces High and enjoy it enough to stay past two weeks.  It's harder for many to get up on the initial curve to start see the progress it takes to motivate them.  However, to master both games and be a top competitor, takes about the same amount of skill and effort.

(Image removed from quote.)


So that would explain why we have a hard time converting new players who come from a FPS or mouse flying background. It doesn't explain why we aren't converting the millions of IL2 players.  The learning curve must not be the fundamental issue there.

 

Man you over think crap way too much. You must have a lot of time to burn.  I'm looking for the games that redcatcher states are as complex and cost as much to play as AH. Hell I'd settle for the ones that just cost more. To "play" not have every bell or whistle.

[FESS67]

The other question is, does it take less "skill" and talent to be a top competitor in iRracing than it does in Aces High? 

No.  The skill required to be a top talent in iRacing is more than required to be good in AH. The difference is that in iRacing you are ranked, sorted and matched into races that suit your skill level.  In AH you are thrown into the pit with no regard to your skill level and are eaten by the sharks very easily.  Not many people stick around for more and more of that.

I have cancelled my AH accounts and spending the money in World of Warships.  Repetitive but fun and matched to ensure you do not get slapped about every match.  Also, I wait no longer than 1.5 minutes for a fight to start.  In AH I could fly for 15 minutes to then watch the enemy turn and run.

[CptTrips]

Man you over think crap way too much. You must have a lot of time to burn. 

LoL.  Well, that's always possible.

It's also possible you don't think things through enough.

[Ciaphas]

The issue is that a lot less players have played other combat flight sims, and so many more players have played one version of FPS or another.  So it is a lot easier for many to jump in BF4 and play well enough to at least have fun, than it is for many to jump into Aces High and enjoy it enough to stay past two weeks.  It's harder for many to get up on the initial curve to start see the progress it takes to motivate them.  However, to master both games and be a top competitor, takes about the same amount of skill and effort.

Complexity aside, if the you can relate experience towards the game you have more fun as the basic fundamentals are known. Complexity aside, it boils down to experience, the complexity comes after learning the basic skills to at least start playing the game in a manner that translates to fun. Taking off and having control of your aircraft (without AP) is the first phase of fun that many have. Later comes dog fighting, bombing, attacking fields etc... . With out those basic skills, nothing else matters.

[ccvi]

Yet I once read that airshows are the #1 Spectator Sport...

Sports events are every week. Air shows are a lot more rare. Hence, more spectators at an air show. Run them weekly and everyone is going to lose interest.

[ccvi]

The other question is, does it take less "skill" and talent to be a top competitor in IRracing than it does in Aces High?  That would be max complexity.

There is a problem here. The word "top" implies a limited set of players. If a new player needs to join that group to have fun it is absolutely clear why there are no players. Just by definition only few can be "top" (based on the same metric, anyway).

Higher numbers are only possible if the game is fun without being part of that "top" group. The game can be fun without being the highest skilled 1vs1 fighter pilot. However, most of the instructions, training (as indicated by other posts including e.g. religious use of certain nomenclature, you-are-not-good-enough-to-provide-help, and similar) are limited to exactly that. Trying to get the player into that "top" group. Which, by definition, is only going to work for fewplayers.

Instead of explaining how to do somerhing meaningful (e.g. helping the country) considering the limited skillet of a new player.