DARPA AlphaDogfight Trials Video

[FLS]

We have real fighter pilots and instructors in AH. They don't automatically dominate but they get better faster than untrained pilots because they have less to learn in the game. They also have qualities that real fighter pilots need that aren't required or useful in the game.

The biggest advantage the AI had in the video was perfect SA. The pilot had to look around with a VR headset and likely couldn't monitor speed while tracking the bandit, I doubt he had a virtual helmet HUD. The AI could optimize turn rate and maneuvering for position. This is why the AI often ended up nose to nose and the best shooter won.

[Eagler]

How much longer is a human fighter pilot even needed in the cockpit?

Eagler

[DmonSlyr]

How much longer is a human fighter pilot even needed in the cockpit?

Eagler

Probably not much longer TBH, unfortunately.

Check out a company called Kratos Defense. (KTOS). Its right around the corner.

As stated, the biggest advantage are views for SA and G Forces, also not risking a humans life.

I find it interesting that there were no HOs after the first merge. Even the AI has respect for a real fight. How about that.

I don't agree with AI only fighters in real life. We don't need a real Skynet, even though there is... we should always have a real human behind the stick.

[FLS]

If you watch all the fights you'll see that they take every HO shot opportunity.

[DmonSlyr]

If you watch all the fights you'll see that they take every HO shot opportunity.

Oh I didn't realize they were shooting

[Wiley]

How much longer is a human fighter pilot even needed in the cockpit?

Eagler

When they can come up with an unjammable control system or get the AI to the point they decide to trust it.

Count me among the people who aren't a fan of independent AI.  Not so much because of Skynet but more because of bugs and unintended consequences.

Wiley.

[DmonSlyr]

If you watch all the fights you'll see that they take every HO shot opportunity.

Okay after watching it more I realize they were shooting in the HO. Didnt catch it the first time. Thats kind of too bad because I feel like HOing in these situations defeats the purpose.

[Wiley]

Okay after watching it more I realize they were shooting in the HO. Didnt catch it the first time. Thats kind of too bad because I feel like HOing in these situations defeats the purpose.

Now there's an interesting question...  Especially in a sim, you *should* be able to have an AI have near perfect gunnery...  Could you make an AI that could successfully avoid the HO or would the gunnery always win out?  That would be an interesting test/challenge.

Wiley.

[Haskell]

Isn't that just coding?

They are as smart as they have been programmed.

Watching them fly in endless circles trying to get behind each other looks like additional manuvers could be added

Eagler

endless circles are the Nash Equillibrium, if they deviated they would be putting themselves at a disadvantage.
remember that most pilots make tons of mistakes from their POV, theres an element of deceit and trickery involved in human v human.

[FLS]

Okay after watching it more I realize they were shooting in the HO. Didnt catch it the first time. Thats kind of too bad because I feel like HOing in these situations defeats the purpose.

You can see the damage meter go down when they get hits.

Their purpose is maneuver to take a shot. You see this in AH too, when both maneuver well you end up nose to nose. You believe in exceptions to taking the shot but that's a gaming culture belief. In combat the worry is not getting the shot first. That's not to say you'd choose a HO if you have a choice but the AI fights show the logical outcome of equal performance.

[Vulcan]

All the talk about maneuvering is pointless when a simple turret will end the argument. You have to stop thinking traditionally.

[Wiley]

All the talk about maneuvering is pointless when a simple turret will end the argument. You have to stop thinking traditionally.

Well, if you're going for effectiveness, a swarm of smaller cheap turreted drones would be the way to go.  Harder to kill, more options for destroying the enemy.

But that's boring.

Wiley.

[DmonSlyr]

You can see the damage meter go down when they get hits.

Their purpose is maneuver to take a shot. You see this in AH too, when both maneuver well you end up nose to nose. You believe in exceptions to taking the shot but that's a gaming culture belief. In combat the worry is not getting the shot first. That's not to say you'd choose a HO if you have a choice but the AI fights show the logical outcome of equal performance.

Wellll.... I believe avoiding the HO shot and getting the angle before the opponent if he tries to HO shoot is a lot less risky and more beneficial. I feel like HOing after the first pass defeats the point of the duel. As Wiley noted it would seem like the AI should have the better aim given its computer. In real life I would not risk going to the HO shot in a duel because it seems like a lose lose for both parties. That's normally what happens to me in AH.   

[guncrasher]

Wellll.... I believe avoiding the HO shot and getting the angle before the opponent if he tries to HO shoot is a lot less risky and more beneficial. I feel like HOing after the first pass defeats the point of the duel. As Wiley noted it would seem like the AI should have the better aim given its computer. In real life I would not risk going to the HO shot in a duel because it seems like a lose lose for both parties. That's normally what happens to me in AH.

ai never got hit, so HO shots worked for it.

semp

[Eagler]

If AI is not blacking out due to G forces, wouldn't it always win as it will be able to turn sharper than a passing out human pilot?

Turn fights in jets seem so 1950

Pretty sure with todays tech it rarely/never happens in real combat

Eagler