Author Topic: Ukraine  (Read 17766 times)

Offline fd ski

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #165 on: February 09, 2022, 11:36:11 AM »
I think all the war mongering pukes should put their body where their mouth is!
Or, put their cold war head, back up their posterior exhaust port..

not sure if you're including me in "war mongering pukes" group, so let me just say that I served as well. USN at the end of first gulf war. Not the same as ground pounding by I did my time. Now my bellybutton is 300 miles away from Russian tanks ( Kaliningrad district ) and let me just respectfully say that your understanding of European affairs is horribly skewed. Not sure where you get your information but there is nobody west of Russian border who wants war. Such people exist only in Putin's scary stories that are supposed to justify his aggression.

As Arlo pointed out, entire discussion about Ukraine in NATO is a non issue for number of reasons.

Last but not least, why is it that Russia is entitled to it's "spheres of influence" and "buffer zones" at the cost of normal, freedom loving people ? People seem to accept this as a given, why not give Ukraine a buffer zone and have Russia move back past Urals ? Would that be ok  ?

Offline Eagler

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #166 on: February 09, 2022, 12:06:14 PM »
NATO is simply not going to promise to never to admit any eastern nation 10, 20, 50 years in the future.  It is certainly not going to make those promises at the point of a gun.

Instead let them start a war where none of their close relatives will have to serve in and if they do they are so far removed they face no danger...

Ukraine isn't worth it ... would you want the gov to sacrifice your children for nothing?

Like the last "war" which lasted over 20 years and we then tucked tail and fled...

Think Ukraine is any less corrupt than Afghanistan?

Looks more like a distraction from much larger issues at home..

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Offline guncrasher

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #167 on: February 09, 2022, 12:10:36 PM »
First of all, the bill of rights and constitution is not a "law" per say, it protects citizens (not illegals) from the government and sets up a government structure.

14th amendment, damn read the constitution once in a while.  anybody here whether legal or illegal is subject to the laws and protected by them.  and it's a law not sure what else to call it.



Funny how you claim you want to change that though. The law you and Tyfoo is talking about is about North vs South union troops, which is no longer an issue and has nothing to do with the southern border of a complete other country invading your soil. Therefore outdated.

the reason there is no more north v south, it's because of that law you want to remove  :bhead


 Secondly. The military is here to defend America from foreign acts of war. So why are we letting foreign acts of war invade our soil to take advantage of Americans? Further more, why are we spending 10s of millions to on a border patrol when we have a military already. What a waste. Especially when we cant even fund that enough to protect the whole border.

only invasion is in your head.  if it really was an invasion we would have the military there. funny how one time you said you never joined the military because you didnt want to be indoctrinated, but now you say don corleone, give me justice, but you dont offer friendship, you dont offer respect...

Oh I know, because you want to destroy America while sending 18 year olds to fight in deserts or other countries across the world for your oil pipelines and agendas.


yes, I want a pipeline from ucraine all the way to the united states. <end of sarcasm>

You want American kids to be drugged and weakened while the establishment gets paid off. Pretty F-Ed up if you ask me. I'd expect nothing less from establishment boot lickers who want to America to collapse into the grips of the global government fascist. If Putin went after the WEF, WTO, WHO, and other criminal fraud globalist institutions. I wouldn't care one bit.


yes I want kids to be drugged because I love misery and misery loves company. <end of sarcasm>  used to volunteer in rehab places, it's a place of misery, dont wish that upon anybody.  if you did a little more reseach you will find out that the biggest drug seizures have been up north not on the southern border.  if only there was a way for 20% of the population to stop smoking or snorting that crap, we wouldnt have as many deaths.




you are as misguided as always and your fake outrage is just that fake.


semp

you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline CptTrips

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #168 on: February 09, 2022, 12:14:15 PM »
Instead let them start a war

NATO is not starting anything. 

To avoid war, Russia simply needs to stay on it's side of the border and there will be no war.

If Russia wants to have military exercises in their territory for the next 6 months, that's fine with me.  The second they step across the border then there is a problem.

 

Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline Brooke

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #169 on: February 09, 2022, 01:12:52 PM »
I lived in craphole ran by soviets in Portland.

Come to Tennessee.  :aok

Offline Hungry

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #170 on: February 09, 2022, 01:15:46 PM »
Does Nato want Ukraine to join < Search phrase
https://www.startpage.com/sp/search

Has Nato put weapons in Ukraine < Search phrase
https://www.startpage.com/sp/search

It's pretty obvious that Nato knows how to play the game

The US flipped over Castro 90 miles away and nearly started a war over Cuban / Russian Missiles

Today this would be like Mexico going Russian, the US would be doing the same thing Russia is doing or worse

What's the answer, there isn't one except in all things, politics, religion, ideology were eating each other alive these days. I blame it on money, over population and the internet (opinions are like but holes, everyone has one and thanks to the internet they want to share it.  See, even me

PS sorry the links didn't work as expected




« Last Edit: February 09, 2022, 01:20:16 PM by Hungry »
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Offline Brooke

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #171 on: February 09, 2022, 01:30:50 PM »
in all things, politics, religion, ideology were eating each other alive these days. I blame it on money, over population and the internet

Those are tools.  It's the people using the tools, and their agenda, that is causing the trouble.

Offline CptTrips

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #172 on: February 09, 2022, 02:22:04 PM »

It's pretty obvious that Nato knows how to play the game



There was never any signed agreement stipulating NATO would refrain from expanding to eastern European countries that I can find (excluding the specific case of GDR specified above.). 
Any claims such a signed agreement existence must be considered untruthful unless a link can be provided.


No NATO forces have deployed to Ukraine.  Given Russia's invasion of Georgia, and Russia's invasion of Crimea, it is no wonder many smaller European countries bordering an aggressive state with a know habit of expanding territory by military means, I don't blame them for seeking protection from NATO.  Those will be considered on a case by case basis.  There is no current membership action plan (MAPS) involving Ukraine to join NATO.  (A long drawn out process that takes years required to achieve membership.) None are in discussion as far as I know. 

NATO troops have been sent to current eastern NATO member nations to shore up defenses which is consistent with our treaty obligation given the increase threats in the region.

We are free to provide these nations defensive armament given Russia's past habit of invasion.  If Ukraine preemptively invades Russia, they will be in the wrong and should be held accountable.  If Russia invades Ukraine they are in the wrong and should be held accountable. 

Whether or not there is war is purely in the hands of Putin at this point.  Stay in Russian territory and there will be no war.  It's going to ultimately be Putin's choice.  However, we should clearly communicate to him what the repercussions are likely to be to avoid unfortunate mis-calculations.

It really can't get any simpler than that.

I understand Russia's security concerns, and am not totally unsympathetic.  We can not of course allow Putin a blanket veto power on NATO membership.  I could see the usefulness of an agreement of carefully balanced military deployment in a zone on either side of a shared border between NATO members and Russia.  But that has to apply equally to Russia as it would a NATO member.  It would have to monitored carefully.  I think that would benefit both sides to avoid accidental misunderstandings. 

I would think some period of time would have to go by without Russia having invaded a weaker neighbor to acquire territory before such an arrangement could be seriously considered.  But Russia can not seriously expect NATO members, or non-NATO members to not react to aggressively forward deployed forces on a shared  border give their proven expansionist tendencies.

To expect NATO or a weaker non-NATO neighbor to unilaterally disarm and simply "trust" Putin, is not rational given the history of his rule.

Again, all Putin has to do to avoid war is not cross that border. 


« Last Edit: February 09, 2022, 03:03:56 PM by CptTrips »
Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline DmonSlyr

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #173 on: February 09, 2022, 03:52:32 PM »
you are as misguided as always and your fake outrage is just that fake.


semp

First of all, that's not what I said about joining the military, but please continue to put words I didn't say into my text.

Secondly, there would be no illegals in the country if the government actually did its job correctly. Illegals do not have the same rights as citizens. I don't care how you interpret the 14th amendment. I don't believe that's what the founders intended.

Thirdly. There is an invasion, whether slow or fast. It's an invasion. And the fact that you and the idiots are denying that, is proof you want to undercut and drug Americans for kickbacks. The majority of drugs are coming from Mexico and the cartel. Why do you want the cartel in America?

Fourthly, that law is no longer necessary and it's proof you don't want the military to protect americans from drug cartels and other terrorist invading the country. They are far worse and scarier than Russia. The left proved that when they cried over the wall. A bunch of scumbags they are.

Hey guess what Semp. They wouldn't be addicted to the drug if the drug wasn't easily accessible. What a novel idea. Curtail the supply and there is no access to it. Wow. How hard is that. If the herion and meth supply was cut off. There would be no access to it. Therefore less kids would be able to get addicted to it. Gee golly. How hard is that to figure out. But we all know your establishment cochroaches make too much money off letting it in and then sending those kids to prison to rot like my buddy. Bunch of cowards.



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Offline RotBaron

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #174 on: February 09, 2022, 05:47:15 PM »
Semp,

You stated this: ‘ if you did a little more reseach you will find out that the biggest drug seizures have been up north not on the southern border’




Where is up north? Canada?

In Nogales a ~few months back DEA/CBP had it’s largest fentanyl seizure in Arizona history. That one bust alone is drop in the ocean compared to what isn’t caught.
They're casting their bait over there, see?

Offline guncrasher

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #175 on: February 09, 2022, 07:06:05 PM »
Semp,

You stated this: ‘ if you did a little more reseach you will find out that the biggest drug seizures have been up north not on the southern border’




Where is up north? Canada?

In Nogales a ~few months back DEA/CBP had it’s largest fentanyl seizure in Arizona history. That one bust alone is drop in the ocean compared to what isn’t caught.

wow 254 lbs, nice catch and no sarcasm. point is, not everything is coming thru the southern border. some big catches have also been done in your york, and at the canadian border.  heck cocaine often washes out in florida, every couple of months you hear about it.  same from northern california, washington, heck anywhere where you can fly, have a dock or walk it, it will get there.

semp


you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline guncrasher

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #176 on: February 09, 2022, 07:25:23 PM »
First of all, that's not what I said about joining the military, but please continue to put words I didn't say into my text.

Secondly, there would be no illegals in the country if the government actually did its job correctly. Illegals do not have the same rights as citizens. I don't care how you interpret the 14th amendment. I don't believe that's what the founders intended.

I dont interpret the 14th amendment, the supreme court does. just food for thought, if the illegal aliens would not be protected by the constitution, then they wouldnt be illegal as they also wouldnt be subject to the law.  that's the correct interpretation of the law.

Thirdly. There is an invasion, whether slow or fast. It's an invasion. And the fact that you and the idiots are denying that, is proof you want to undercut and drug Americans for kickbacks. The majority of drugs are coming from Mexico and the cartel. Why do you want the cartel in America?

drugs are coming thru mexico and most of the world, they're made everywhere else in the world. heck we have labs here that make just about any drug people want.

Fourthly, that law is no longer necessary and it's proof you don't want the military to protect americans from drug cartels and other terrorist invading the country. They are far worse and scarier than Russia. The left proved that when they cried over the wall. A bunch of scumbags they are.

what you think is not needed isnt necessarily the right answer. do you really wish the military to take over enforcing the law and get rid of the police and everybody else?  because if we really have an invasion, we couldnt deploy it as they are busy enforcing laws, that police, border patrol... are trained for it.  i was in the marines, i was not trained to enforce civil laws.  and sure as hell dont want a tank on my block.

Hey guess what Semp. They wouldn't be addicted to the drug if the drug wasn't easily accessible. What a novel idea. Curtail the supply and there is no access to it. Wow. How hard is that. If the herion and meth supply was cut off. There would be no access to it. Therefore less kids would be able to get addicted to it. Gee golly. How hard is that to figure out. But we all know your establishment cochroaches make too much money off letting it in and then sending those kids to prison to rot like my buddy. Bunch of cowards.


you are young, you havent been around as long as I have been.  think you moved to florida right?  florida is where most of the cocaine came in back in the 80's.  and it was the coast guard, federal officers, and about 80% of the police who stopped it.  the other 20%  give or take where on the take.  drugs have been accessible since hundreds of years before i was born.  and they will be hundreds of years after I am dead.  you think it's something new.  the other day I stopped at stater brothers, there was a guy asking me for a dollar, i just walked by him.  his face had paint smudges around his nose and mouth.  then I walked in saw the sale signs for beer and alcohol, hey it's superbowl next week.  you should research on what people get high on.  paint thinner, glue, there's a thousand of ways to get high. if you really want to.  you are naive.



semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline Brooke

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #177 on: February 09, 2022, 07:36:24 PM »
There are about 900,000 lbs of illegal drugs seized each year crossing US borders.  About 45% is at the southwest land border, which are coming into the US from Mexico.  About 40% is coastal/interior ports of entry, which is also drugs coming into the US from Mexico and countries south of the border.  About 15% is at the norther border, which is mostly the drugs that came in from south of the border being taken to and across the northern border into Canada.

https://www.cbp.gov/newsroom/stats/drug-seizure-statistics

Offline Arlo

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #178 on: February 09, 2022, 07:54:51 PM »
Hey. Could someone now start a Q thread or something now that it doesn't matter who posts what to whom no matter how stupid, disrespectful or insane they sound? Then hijack every other thread in the O club to spin the crazy agenda all over?:old:

Offline guncrasher

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Re: Ukraine
« Reply #179 on: February 09, 2022, 08:26:39 PM »
Hey. Could someone now start a Q thread or something now that it doesn't matter who posts what to whom no matter how stupid, disrespectful or insane they sound? Then hijack every other thread in the O club to spin the crazy agenda all over?:old:

i would, but whatever happened to the lizards or q?, is the ex still going incognito to find who shot biggie and 2pac?


semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.