Ukraine part 2

[guncrasher]

The problem with voting is the government has split us up so much we can't change anything meaningful... as for being treasonous... Jefferson was in favor of a rebellion every few years... and what would u call the founders with regard to king George?
 

if jefferson was in favor of a rebellion every few years he would have committed treason, and I dont think he was for it.  you dont live the government legal way is vote them out, or bring arms and commit treason and pay for it.  treason is the only crime described in the constitution.


semp

[Brooke]

show me a city

https://youtu.be/IXN2rBsK3Sg?t=2
https://youtu.be/e6ls4l7UrGg?t=3
https://youtu.be/rDvCCrcQ198?t=14
https://youtu.be/rDvCCrcQ198?t=52
https://youtu.be/hhNiG6SlvZQ?t=9
https://youtu.be/JZM09qNsN3s?t=14
https://youtu.be/R-mhtqBdKg4?t=20

I am just saying that because even in 2020, I could go anywhere and get a burger

Anywhere except indoors in New York, DC, Boston, Chicago, Philadelphia, New Orleans, Minneapolis, St. Paul, San Francisco, LA,  Seattle.

but only if you want to eat inside, most have outside eating.

It's not great eating outside in January in New York, DC, Boston, Chicago, Philadelphia, Minneapolis, St. Paul, and I would include San Francisco and Seattle.

but that doesnt have anything to do with voting, does it.

It does, but indirectly, as in motivating people's votes.

truth is there's hundreds or perhaps a few thousands of people that vote illegally.
...
fact is legal citizens with legal id are denied the right to vote

I think voter fraud is far larger than number of people illegally denied voting.

Regardless how we feel about that, though, both things can be solved by correctly implemented voter ID -- that proves you *can* vote and can't be denied.  It's not rocket science.

There are about 100 countries that have voter ID, including:  Canada, Switzerland, Germany, UK, Italy, France, Israel, Ireland, Iceland, Denmark, Netherlands, Japan, South Korea, Greece, Panama, Philippines, Brazil, Romania, Singapore, Turkey, Thailand, Kenya, Nigeria, Belgium, Finland, Spain, Uruguay, Costa Rica, Luxembourg, to name a handful.

[guncrasher]

https://youtu.be/IXN2rBsK3Sg?t=2
https://youtu.be/e6ls4l7UrGg?t=3
https://youtu.be/rDvCCrcQ198?t=14
https://youtu.be/rDvCCrcQ198?t=52
https://youtu.be/hhNiG6SlvZQ?t=9
https://youtu.be/JZM09qNsN3s?t=14
https://youtu.be/R-mhtqBdKg4?t=20

Anywhere except indoors in New York, DC, Boston, Chicago, Philadelphia, New Orleans, Minneapolis, St. Paul, San Francisco, LA,  Seattle.

It's not great eating outside in January in New York, DC, Boston, Chicago, Philadelphia, Minneapolis, St. Paul, and I would include San Francisco and Seattle.

It does, but indirectly, as in motivating people's votes.

I think voter fraud is far larger than number of people illegally denied voting.

Regardless how we feel about that, though, both things can be solved by correctly implemented voter ID -- that proves you *can* vote and can't be denied.  It's not rocket science.

There are about 100 countries that have voter ID, including:  Canada, Switzerland, Germany, UK, Italy, France, Israel, Ireland, Iceland, Denmark, Netherlands, Japan, South Korea, Greece, Panama, Philippines, Brazil, Romania, Singapore, Turkey, Thailand, Kenya, Nigeria, Belgium, Finland, Spain, Uruguay, Costa Rica, Luxembourg, to name a handful.

really in those cities, you could not go to a drive thru or outside, or even cook your own burger without showing id?

I find that hard to believe.  and whatever those countries laws say, they dont apply here do there. because i can name things in those countries that dont happen here with id.

for example the 90, native americans with id that got denied the right to vote.  quote me wrong on this.



semp

[Brooke]

really in those cities

Let's revisit what we're talking about here.

Remember, it's not racist or fascist for a person to have to show an ID to eat a cheeseburger.

Which is referring to needing vax ID's to go into restaurants.

To which you replied:

not once in my life have i had to show id to eat a burger.

To which I replied:

Over the past couple of years, all of these cities announced legal requirement to show vax ID to get into restaurants:  New York, DC, Boston, Chicago, Philadelphia, New Orleans, Minneapolis, St. Paul, San Francisco, LA,  Seattle.

In other words, maybe you didn't need one, but folks wanting to go into restaurants in those cities did have to show ID.

That's my only point.  Arguing other things that aren't my point is a total waste of time.

[Brooke]

and whatever those countries laws say, they dont apply here do there. because i can name things in those countries that dont happen here with id.

It's useful to see what works and what doesn't in history, and in other places.

As you say, sometimes a thing that works elsewhere or elsewhen isn't a good thing to do here and now.  Because there are important differences that would make it not work.

But sometimes it is a good thing to do.  Because the circumstances are similar.

It depends on details.

Voting is a very simple and common thing, though.

for example the 90, native americans with id that got denied the right to vote.  quote me wrong on this.

When did I say that's wrong?  I think there are more voter fraud instances than that, though.  I also think that a correctly implemented voter-ID system would help preclude that sort of problem.

[Brooke]

By the way, semp, I think you and I both want the same thing:  no one denied his or her legal vote.

You are focused on the Native Americans in your example.  I don't think that's right either.

I am also focused on people whose votes are spoiled through fraud.  You think that's small enough to ignore.

My feeling is that a good voting system solves both problems.  It gives voters an undeniable means to vote, and it protects against fraud.

[RotBaron]

if jefferson was in favor of a rebellion every few years he would have committed treason, and I dont think he was for it.  you dont live the government legal way is vote them out, or bring arms and commit treason and pay for it.  treason is the only crime described in the constitution.


semp

Brooke did say ‘every few years’, BUT that is not what Jefferson wrote. Thomas Jefferson wrote in a letter to James Madison on society and government    “I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical.”

Semp you stated on 200 you were packing (smoking) a bowl and while writing here on this topic, it now makes a lot more sense why so much of what you write seems like you didn’t read or comprehend the posts you’re responding to. Brooke stated several times what he meant by having ID to “eat a burger,” and it still looks like you don’t understand.

Not trying to pick on you but now that I know it’s the alcohol weed combo, many of your posts make more sense.

[Eagler]

And this is how it ends...

Arguing about the color of the sky while ww3 rages on

They have us hating and arguing amongst ourselves while those that spin up the division laugh all the way to the bank...they have won

If this board has shown me anything some here live very different and interesting lives
 

Eagler

[Ramesis]

if jefferson was in favor of a rebellion every few years he would have committed treason, and I dont think he was for it.  you dont live the government legal way is vote them out, or bring arms and commit treason and pay for it.  treason is the only crime described in the constitution.
semp

One countries treasonous act is an other's patriotism
 


Thomas Jefferson wrote in a letter to James Madison on society and government "I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical.”

[/quote]

It seems to me "... and then is a good thing... " IS an endorsement of rebellion"
 

[CptTrips]

nvrmind

[Busher]

I think voter fraud is far larger than number of people illegally denied voting.


There are about 100 countries that have voter ID, including:  Canada, Switzerland, Germany, UK, Italy, France, Israel, Ireland, Iceland, Denmark, Netherlands, Japan, South Korea, Greece, Panama, Philippines, Brazil, Romania, Singapore, Turkey, Thailand, Kenya, Nigeria, Belgium, Finland, Spain, Uruguay, Costa Rica, Luxembourg, to name a handful.

Now how did we guess that the old voter fraud sausage would rear it's ugly head again... and in spite of Mar-a-Lardo being proven wrong countless times.

By the way, I cannot speak for the other countries on your list but there is no such thing as voter ID (beyond a driver's license) in Canada.

[guncrasher]

Brooke did say ‘every few years’, BUT that is not what Jefferson wrote. Thomas Jefferson wrote in a letter to James Madison on society and government    “I hold it that a little rebellion now and then is a good thing, and as necessary in the political world as storms in the physical.”

Semp you stated on 200 you were packing (smoking) a bowl and while writing here on this topic, it now makes a lot more sense why so much of what you write seems like you didn’t read or comprehend the posts you’re responding to. Brooke stated several times what he meant by having ID to “eat a burger,” and it still looks like you don’t understand.

Not trying to pick on you but now that I know it’s the alcohol weed combo, many of your posts make more sense.

when I say I'm packing a bowl, I actually mean smoking a cigarette. i do smoke a bowl once or twice a week but that's after playing the game.  I'm bipolar and it got me off medication, also use it for pain on back and legs. for which I don't take pills either.

but for understanding, I understand correctly.  for example there's counties in a few states that don't allow sale of alcohol, that doesn't mean I can claim that alcohol is banned. same for burgers maybe in some cities you need to be vaxxed to enter a restaurant, that doesn't mean you need id to eat a burger.  ask yourself that question, do I need a card to eat a burger, the answer is no.

which brings back the vote thing, there's dozens of  voter fraud, it's on the news so the time, it's wide spread voter fraud? I don't think so.

so the laws are not being used to stop voter fraud, they are being used to stop some people who are legally allowed to vote.

that's what I think anyway.

semp

[Brooke]

in spite of Mar-a-Lardo being proven wrong countless times.

Proven wrong where?

By the way, I cannot speak for the other countries on your list but there is no such thing as voter ID (beyond a driver's license) in Canada.

Driver's license to vote is voter ID.  It's ID you need to present to vote.

[Shuffler]

Proven wrong where?

Driver's license to vote is voter ID.  It's ID you need to present to vote.

Some states let illegals get license. Does not work.

[Brooke]

Some states let illegals get license. Does not work.

Yes, but in Canada, using driver's license as an ID to vote is voter ID there.  That was my only point.