I hope we'll never have an EZ mode here

[SnakeEyes]

Wrench & Badger - Don't get me wrong... I think EZ mode confers some advantages, but only in some pretty limited situations.  I personally have no qualms with mixing EZ and Real Mode in the same arena.

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SnakeEyes
o-o-o-
=4th Fighter Group=

[jedi]

Wasn't "raggin on you" at all Pyro.  In fact, although you maybe missed my point a bit, you made it for me again.

A lot of folks get a big kick out of pointing out how "screwed up" Warbirds is.  Since iEN, as you point out, has done almost nothing except create a gunnery model that's only slightly improved over the last one YOU guys put in, iEN can be "blamed" for not advancing, but the only guys who could've "screwed up" Warbirds is...er...you.    

But that would assume that Warbirds is "screwed up" in the first place, which IMO it's not.  The sim you left wasn't "broken" when you left it, you guys were magnanimous enough to "fix it" when some other guys screwed it up after you left, and it's not broken now.  I just find it...er...humorous when guys over here get so incredulous about "how could iEN EVER have put EZ mode in the Main Arena in the first place?" when iEN DIDN'T do it, they UN-did it!  And guess where the guys who DID do it work now?    P.S. You'll never guess WHY the LW guys over in WB think the Dora is such a "dog" over there.  Guess where most of those guys fly now?  

As for EZ mode, I simply disagree with both your reasoning and the decision itself.  Or isn't that allowed?  If you go beyond the "auto-takeoff" mode over here, you'll be making the same mistake again.  There are indeed SOME new players who NEED a "handicap" that some sort of EZ mode provides.  Making it available to everyone, all the time, and then allowing them to keep that shortcut and use it against players who play at "full difficulty level" is not fair, and it's not smart if you value the customers you have now as much as the ones you don't have yet.

Minotaur has the right idea back up there a few posts.  If you're gonna let people skip whatever "rules" they don't like or can't handle, you'd better make sure that you build in something that takes that option away as they master the game.  If EZ-mode abusers can kill enough Real Mode guys to get to the top of the rankings, just imagine what they'll do to EZ-mode NEWBIES.

Hey, what do I know?  I don't design games.  I just play em  

--jedi

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[StSanta]

Excellent response Minotaur, and a good suggestion on how to implement it.

Good as it may be, it doesn't meet my personal "same game" criterion, but that's just personal preference  .



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StSanta
II/JG2

[Minotaur]

StSanta;

Trust me, it is not the "same game".  Go to the TA and work with a complete Newbie.

Perhaps you already realize the difference in ability, but this might help bridge the gap in understanding of why I feel some form of EZMode might be utilized under the conditions I have explained.  

Most often these new players are very little threat to any player who is competing regularly in the MA.  

Their transistion out of EZMode might even be seen as passing the first test of "AcesHigh PilotHood" to the rest of the AH community.  This being worthy of a simulated "Pat on the Back".

EZMode does not bolt on so well with myself either.  My personal preference is for there not to be one or, as Pyro describes, only in a seperate arena.  I see it as kind of a necessary evil, sort of like making sure our power bills get paid.  If the electric company goes broke, my lights stay off for a long time.

Thanks again!  <Salute>  


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Mino
The Wrecking Crew

[Badger]

 

Originally posted by Nash:
Badger (just using him as the only example I know - not saying anything   ) flew EZ mode for three years. There obviously just wasn't enough of an incentive for him to climb the ladder to FR.

Nash is ABSOLUTELY correct.  Even being a real life pilot working on some aerobatics training, I had no desire and no incentive to want to spend time learning RM.  Easy mode was available to me, I did very well with it and enjoyed WB for what it is, simply a game.  I wasn't cheating as it was a standard game option supplied first by ICI all the way back to v1.11 that I remember, then carried on by iEN.  I only switched when I had some extra time on my hands to go through the hand/eye dexterity learning curve, plus I wanted more of a challenge to see if I could do as well under the RM flight model.  To my surprise, I learned it very quickly because I had the benefit of so much easy mode time.  I also discovered I did better with RM, being able to get that extra out of each plane that was throttled back under easy mode.

To be frank, if easy mode had not been available for me at all in WB, I wouldn't be here today, as I wouldn't have invested the initial learning curve time to master the joystick coordination in order to play the game.  I would have cancelled by WB's subscription and left.  I wonder how many other badgers have tried AH and not gone further than the trial period, as it's simply too much time investment for them to become half way competitive.  It sure would get frustrating to me to be killed every two minutes, due to the generally high quality of pilots who fly in AH.  I wonder how many of those went over to $9.95/month WB, just to fly the air starts, no red outs or black outs, no stalls, no compression etc etc etc ACA, which now to me feels like flying around in thick soup compared to either WB RM or AH RM.

Just some thoughts.

Regards,
Badger

[leonid]

Badger has a point.  That spit player I almost killed a few days ago was a true babe in the woods.  He was so close to departing controlled flight all by himself, that I'm sure if I had just buzzed him a few times, he would have eventually augered.

When I first played WB I hadn't flown a flight sim in 10 years, and it showed because it took me three months before I could even be considered competent squaddie material.  I mean, up until that point every landing was a 50-50 proposition.

There are many good ideas in this thread about implementation of EZ-mode that wouldn't compromise on the stone-cold hard-core veterans (other than their principles).  The fact remains that unless AH keeps the flow of customers coming, it may very well flounder.  Then where will we be?  If EZ mode happens, it happens.  WB's 'relaxed-realism' was always a handicap for me, and I'm sure AH's will be for all you other longtime players.

What's the harm in allowing a newbie the chance to get just the least bit satisfying taste of air combat by having EZ-mode?  Heck, we're all such elitist, I'm sure any self-respecting newbie will mark the day he switched to flying Real-mode, like the rest of us ... old fogies?

 

[funked]

Mino I include myself in that group.  

[Kieren]

Started as a FR pilot in WB H2H... got to be pretty ok.

Along came Fighter Ops... megaplayer at a budget! Only caveat was it was EZ mode... oh well, just can't afford $2 per hour...

Then came scenarios. I didn't mind paying the little extra for those. Problem was, all those months of flying nothing but EZ mode had dulled my reflexes considerably. What to do? Simple. I flew EZ mode. The experts kept telling us that it was a disadvantage (though I felt differently, I spent the bulk of my time playing EZ) so I did it. Didn't tear up the place, mind you, but I did ok.

ACA comes along. Yay! It has FR and EZ, I immediately go to FR. Then comes the decision to remove FR. Back to EZ.  

DoA comes next. FR, yay! Wait, now there's EZ too, and there is a pronounced edge with EZ mode. Though I remain FR (as it is my preference) it quickly becomes apparent these two modes cannot co-exist in DoA. EZ is removed, paradise restored.  

Disco goddesses can be cruel, and the "every-five-minute disco" hit me 24/7 for about 6 weeks. Though I dearly loved the game, I was out cold. AH had been beta for a bit, and I decided to satisfy my jones here. Got the hang of the flight model in due time (DoA was actually a big help here; those WWI kites are damned unforgiving of energy mismanagement!) and haven't looked back.

Until now.

The reason for relating this novella is to illustrate that I have had experiences on both sides of this issue enough to know one thing; EZ mode does offer advantages to those that know how to use them. As implemented in WB I think EZ somewhat, though not dramatically as some say, unlevels the playing field. Example- if you are in a Spit V and you are playing that 190 for a stall, it isn't going to happen when you think it will, if at all. He will pull that nose up and bleed every ounce of E and then some while you dog out below. True, his nose won't whip around as quickly as when in FR, but if you played everything you had for the one shot, you're done.

For me, I would be happy if the MA was mixed IF we get an HA for the hardcore crowd. After all, the features that have been asked for are more in line with that setup anyway, and anyone upset with MA features would have a place to go.

Not trying to be a snob about this, and I am genuinely interested in the welfare of HTC and the new flyer. Still, when I turnfight someone I am often trying to wring the last bit of energy out of their fighter before I get the easy shot- I know from experience that mixed f/m's can make that a guessing game.

All of the above is based on my WB/DoA/FO experiences, and may not reflect what HTC has in store for AH.  -

[easymo]

Kiren. Imagin a 1c turnning on a dime at 50 ias. dead stable platform to ho anything that comes near it. We got guns those other games didnt have.

 I dont care if they turn off the FR. as long as we are all in the same mode. I just dont want to be playing golf with a basketball.

 BTW i dont want to go into an HA to find it. Every prop sim on the net has some version of an HA. And they always have far fewer people in them.

[This message has been edited by easymo (edited 05-28-2000).]

[This message has been edited by easymo (edited 05-28-2000).]

[Jekyll]

Well, even though I flew WB for about 4 years, and hated the idea that EZMode was available in the MA, I just gotta say that I think that creating another arena for EZ players is a real bad idea.

Why?  Well in my time zone I often log in to find as few as 6 people online.  Half of those are guys I've never seen before, and would probably be candidates for an EZ Arena.

So my evenings would be full of the fun of trying to find a fight with maybe 1 or 2 enemy pilots.

Mino's idea is great - allow EZMode in the MA but link it to kills, points, whatever.  Once a pilot makes it past, say 25 kills, disable no stalls - 50 kills? - he loses autotrim etc.

But you gotta give him something back for graduating out of EZMode, some kind of incentive.  Perhaps engine management can be tied in here somehow?  

Full EZ Options - only 90% of available power
Lose 'No Stall' - 95% of available power
Lose 'Autotrim' - 100% of available power

My $0.04 (Australian currency exchange rate)  

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C.O. Phoenix Squadron
http://www.users.bigpond.net.au/phoenix
'feel the heat .......'

[axe]

One thing is sure,
If in Ah will be an arena with full  and relaxed reality mixed together,  with regret,
i'll erase my account.
I don't like too different era planes in same arena...but mixed reality is unproposable!
AXE

[StSanta]

Guys...

I am not sure what is terrible elitist about wnating a level playfield.

Not sure what is terrible elitist about expecting others to go through the same difficulties as I do when fighting others.

Not sure it is terribly elitist to want NOT to have to doubt "is this guy an EZ mode driver?" and have to go on a 50-50 guess every time.

It's not about elitism. I am not saying that newbies are worthless plebeians suitable only for mowing my lawn with their ugly faces. Just saying that if they're on my lawn and want to race me, they better use the same style of lawn mower.

I've found elitism to be defined by: elitism n : the attitude that society should be governed by an elite group of individuals

Even though elitism is used in a different way here, the definition still carries some weight. I'm all for newbies, but I am also all for letting differences in experience levels show.


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StSanta
II/JG2
 

[This message has been edited by StSanta (edited 05-28-2000).]

[Lance]

I've steered a few friends to this game recently.  Right now, only one is still playing, and I am not sure if he will stick around when his two week trial is up.  The general concensus among them is "Why do I want to pay $30 a month to do nothing but get shot down all the time?"  In essence, they are not to the point where the game quits being about trudging up the learning curve and starts being about having fun before their free trial runs out.

The game as it is can be extremely frustrating for a newbie.  This is not necessarily due to the flight model being difficult.  These guys learned to take off, land, make basic flight and combat maneuvers in relatively short order.  Rather, it is that the skill of the pilots in the MA is at such a high level that the new player can't really compete.  They take off, fly for 10 minutes, and then are shot down before they knew they were in danger.  The game isn't fun for them, and they wonder how anyone but a masochist would pay $30 a month for this.

My enjoyment of Aces High will never be dependent on or affected by any other pilot here.  My enjoyment is, however, dependent on and affected by the game being here.  So HTC has my support for an EZ mode for new players to make the game more accessible to them.   Put it either in a seperate arena or in the main arena.  If it is in the main arena, consider having it shut off whenever a player gets a certain number of kills or kill per death ratio.

Gordo

[Sorrow[S=A]]

Am I the only one here who thinks that EZ mode players would make for a GREAT campaign for a non-easy mode HA?

Let them buzz around in the MA, theres enough dweebery in MA right now when you think about it. Then give us more dedicated folks an HA to play in that has no ez mode. I mean hell, anyone in an HA is there for the reality of it anyways eh?

[Sundog]

I concur completely with Sorrow. I, personally, would really hate to see a mixed arena. I realize HTC have to do whatever it take to remain solvent (Or get solvent). But I would really hate to see a mixed FM arena. I understand the need to create a more relaxed arena. There are many people from my Fighter Ace Squad who won't fly here because of the FM, but they love the graphics. Of course, they never flew Full Realistic over at Fighter Ace either like some of the rest of us in our squad. I think an EZ Mode arena is an excellent idea. However, a mixed mode? I just don't like the idea and I can visualize what Kieren was talking about,`not knowing' which FM you are going against in a fight would make it difficult to fight your opponents.

What I think would be cool, and add incentive to learning a Full Realistic FM, would be to have an EZ arena with a limited plane set. What I am talking about, is maybe having five extra planes in the full realistic arena that you don't have in the EZ arena as an incentive to learn the more difficult FM. Another idea would be to have the EZ mode only consist of early war plane types. If you wanted to fly late war types, you would need to learn the more difficult FM. I'm not quite sure if that makes good business sense, but I think the arenas should be seperate, or there should at least be some incentive to fly/learn the more difficult FM. If there isn't I can spend $10.00/month where I was instead of $30.00/month here. I know I am only one, and that isn't meant as a threat or anything like that. I am only stating my POV as a paying customer, because I really enjoy AH, but if it ends up similar to what I came from, whats the point?

   



[This message has been edited by Sundog (edited 05-28-2000).]