I hope we'll never have an EZ mode here

[StSanta]

Minotaur wrote:
 

This translates into two forms of skill: Physical Skill - How well you can fly the plane
Mental Skill - How well you understand tactics that are successful

Mm, I understand where you're coming from, but I think there's more to the issue.

What skills are succesful depend on how well you can fly your plane. Adding an autotrim/EZ mode would remove one skill element here. Much can be said about it and I won't comment further on it.

However, it *will* change just *what* maneuvers you can do in EZ mode and in real mode. In the 109G10 for instance, trim is a real issue and something one must take into account when you plan your moves, i.e how well you understand tactics that are succesful.

If I ever fly an autotrimmed 109G10, I'll oull some stunts I have problems doing so. I'll also be much more agressive, and most of all, rest assured that I will develop new tactics that incoporporate the new capabilities of my aircraft.

That's one of my objections to a combined EZ/Real MA. Another one is level playing ground.

I also understand that Pyro et al runs a company that's there to make a buck or two. I just think (cannot say for sure til I've tried it) that it won't be my $30 a month, since my second objection really carries some weight to me.

I won't play chess with a guy who starts off with 10 queens, or two.

I won't play flight sims where potentially (and likely) I'll meet pilots of equal skill in the same aircraft but with "an extra queen".

The people of HTC have some pretty hard decisions in front of them. I do think that if they implement a mixed main arena, they'll lose part of their customers, and gain some new ones. It is likely that some of the purists who hold the same objections as I do will seek more fertile playing grounds.

We'll just have to wait and see.

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StSanta
II/JG2

[wrench]

I dont play AH, but I must post on this EZ mode thing. While I never played in EZ mode in the main, I have a lot of time in it in the other arena's. I agree with badger and snakeye's, you can become REAL GOOD in easy mode. Funny I didnt put it to the test, but I did ask a lot of people about it, I was brushed off. I will take badger at his word about his experience.

Badger, man I never thought you were in easy mode  , "diry little secret" indeed  

Not to be snobbish, but about the time I was getting to be an average to above average player is when easy mode was unleashed. Suddenly everyone was at my level and above in the main, you see they stayed in easy and I stayed in real, but I was only average. Neat huh, plenty of "fair fights" and good numbers, boy no wonder I went from 100.00+ a month to 20.00  


Wrench -=Night Stalkers=-

[Yeager]

Pyro,

This is a very important issue.  I am a puritan on this matter and will feel soiled if more than one level of physics is modeled in the same arena.  It fosters mistrust and suspician and generally sucks.  

I can live with auto takeoff.  Thats no biggie but if we start mixing things up, well
I just dont want to go through that again.
The F4U-1C lethality problem was so predictable and having easymode mixed in with real would make that look like a tea party.

Business is business and all that so do what you must but be please be careful.

Yeager

[Minotaur]

Jedi;

I read your post to understand that you believe the sole reason certain players are more successful is that they fly in EZMode.

I could likely compare that same "win at all cost" mentality to those players who fly nothing but the most dominating plane in the MA, could I not?.

Do those successful "EZMode Dweebs"   fly significantly better or do they think significantly better?  

Does EZMode just provide a substantial advantage that allows them to compete at the same skill level and be more successful?  

I am not trying to be contrary just for the sake of it.  These are honest questions on my part, respecting your input.

Converting to Golf.  I am very used to the scenerio that you described above, so it does not bother me.  I have yet to win a handicapped tournament, even though my skill level surpasses those that do win.

Therefore; this EZMode should have some checks and balances.  Such as, for increasing actual player skill combined with the decreasing of EZMode options.  At an end piont decreasing the options so that there are NO OPTIONS.  The player must particpate at the "Full Realism" level.

This is "in theory" how the handicap system of golf works.  But, you are correct.  There are certainly golfers that take advantage of a system that is meant to be fair, by "Gaming the Game".  Frankly others just "Cheat".  This however; does not effect myself, but only effects them.

The purpose of EZMode should remain true to its calling, reduce the frustration of "New" players somewhat.  Let them enjoy the game initially to become frustratedly happy and a steady paying customer like the rest of us.  

As Pyro explains it, I do not think that HTC will take this on without significant fore thought.  So, while I'm not really for it I am willing to give it a try.  Pyro pretty much explained that HTC needs to be financially successful or there will no "Modes" at all to fly in.

Sorry for the length of this post.  Thanks for your input!    

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Mino
The Wrecking Crew

[Badger]

 

Originally posted by Wrench:

Badger, man I never thought you were in easy mode   , "diry little secret" indeed  

Hi Wrench....  

Nice to see (hear) from you again.... <Salute>

Yup, until I think early January 99, but I can't quite remember the exact time.  I always knew that a great many guys were flying "easy mode" in the WB's MA and HA.  I tried to discuss it a few times, but was always treated as if it was heresy to mention it by some, while others spouted the old party line that it was actually a disadvantage to use easy mode against RM pilots.  I could always tell when I was engaging a guy in easy mode versus RM, because I personally had accumulated a lot of experience with it.  I knew the numbers were huge, but simply didn't want to open one of those endless debates that they now seem to have come to on AGW.

I know I finished at least once in the top three scores while using easy mode.  On the other hand, I remember finishing as the top score in the HA twice, after I had learned to fly RM and RAM1 or VERT had disabled that capability for that specific arena.

I guess the moral for me was, all of the flying in easy mode made it relatively easy to adapt to RM when I finally chose to learn it.  I think the entire thing is blown way out of proportion as it is JUST A GAME for me.  Maybe that's why I have a problem understanding all of the flurry of activity with the AGW thread.  Who cares in an MA environment as it's one huge FFA "gang bang" anyway, so why not let people fly either mode.  IEN should have left it that way.  Instead, they have now cut their own financial throats with no serious demographic research of the quiet majority who never post anywhere, opting to listen to the vocal minority of the BBS who screamed how indignant they were about associating with the easy mode riff raff.  

It's interesting to see the reactions of a lot of guys I've known for years.  Although I'm white male, I think for the first time in my life I have some inkling as to what it must be like to be a visible minority.

I hope we get the opportunity to fly together again sometime partner.  I still remember our fun days with FO.

Regards,
Badger

[Minotaur]

StSanta;

Ouch!    Suddenly I fined myself on the hot seat, but thanks for replying to my post.

I understand what you mean by a level playing field.  Read my post above.  (LOL I was typing as your were typing   )

From my brief experience as an AH trainer and as someone wanting HTC to be a solid financial company I see the need.  This is for personal reasons only and those reasons are so that I can play a long time.  

I factiod this into my thoughts.  Most on-line flight sim players today, play in games where "relaxed reality" is prevelent.  Let them transition to AH and be happy paying customers, don't turn them off immediately when perhaps they would actually enjoy the game after some more time.  

Here is where I stand on EZMode after the insight provided by Jedi's comments.

 

By Mino:
Therefore; this EZMode should have some checks and balances. Such as, for increasing actual player skill combined with the decreasing of EZMode options. At an end piont decreasing the options so that there are NO OPTIONS. The player must particpate at the "Full Realism" level.

 

By Mino:
The purpose of EZMode should remain true to its calling, reduce the frustration of "New" players somewhat. Let them enjoy the game initially to become frustratedly happy and a steady paying customer like the rest of us.

I will add that I feel this should not be a long transistion.  Dependending upon initial player skill, it should be 1 week to 2 months.  

EZMode should possibly be limited and applied to only a few planes in the planeset, not every single plane.  As you state, the 109G-10 would be a very poor candidate for EZMode options.  

Thanks for your input!  


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Mino
The Wrecking Crew

[Pyro]

 

Originally posted by jedi:
At least you guys now know just WHO put the Easy Mode into Warbirds, WHO put it in the same arena with Real Mode, and WHO might do it in your pristine combat world too if business requires it.

Well duh.  Who do you think was responsible for most of what you play over there outside of 2 new planes and 3 variants, a year and a half of gunnery tweaks at the expense of any real development, and implementation of a mandatory ilz?

Rag on us all you want.  It doesn't change the past and it won't change the future.  


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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.

[Pyro]

I see people getting bent over something that they're not even familiar with.  We don't yet have an easy mode, we don't yet know exactly how we're going to implement one, and we don't yet know if we'll be able to mix it or not.  However, we do fully understand the issues involved.  

In the end, my preference would be for an easy mode that can be mixed and kept fair, but with a separate arena.  The reason for this is because it gives new players an easier arena to play in without having to fall victim to all the hardened vets, and yet not divide the game completely so that things like special events have to be tailored to one group or another.  But bringing up another arena is a lot more involved than just starting one up.  You have to have the people to seed it with.



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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations

In theory, there is no difference between theory and practice. In practice there is.

[Badger]

   

Originally posted by Pyro:
In the end, my preference would be for an easy mode that can be mixed and kept fair, but with a separate arena.

Hehe...I can't believe it.  Badger and Pyro actually agreeing upon something.  <Salute>

Mix them in MA if yould like....mark their Country, Plane, Name Icon to show <E> mode On.  Conversely, or inclusively (do both)give them separate arena, so they gain the thrill of playing with equal skill sets till they develop.  It's academic, but separate the two religions or balance the fairness when they are together.

Thanks for listening, as always....

Regards,
Badger


[This message has been edited by Badger (edited 05-27-2000).]

[Torque]

Nice to be home eh...Pyro.People never seem to see the "s" on arenas

[Dinger]

Well, uh, seeing as how the vast majority of these flight sim types want an easy game, and don't intend to play it more than a few times  a month, I suppose you could create a RR arena and charge $10/month for that.  You'd probly see the same or better load/$charge as with $30/month for the current MA.  Of course, you'd still get people getting really good in RR and others whining that they can't afford FR (or pay too much for essentially the same game).

Dinger

[easymo]

 Pyro. I have always felt that fighter ace handled this the best way. Whatm new people want, more than anything, is a kill. With the big guns you already have this covered. All they would need is other newbi,s to shoot at. FA, as im sure you know, has a newbi arena. once you hit a number of kills you are kicked out.

 The arena could be seeded with trainers. Rename the TA. Make it a real arena (kill shooter on. ect.) add ezmode. Keep anybody out that has over a hundred kills. and kick the newbi out when he hits his one hundred.

[Nash]

I think Mino's idea is fantastic.

Much the same as you will track points (however this is going to be handled) in order to determine when someone's allowed to get an uber plane, track the points on EZ mode players in order to decrease their handicap and incrementally disable the effectiveness of the EZ mode features.

If the numbers allow it though, my vote is still to have seperate arenas. My hope is that EZ mode be used here to yes, attract new customers, BUT be done in such a way that *encourages* people to move up to FR.

Badger (just using him as the only example I know - not saying anything   ) flew EZ mode for three years. There obviously just wasn't enough of an incentive for him to climb the ladder to FR. So what I'm saying is... I like the idea of EZ mode being used as a *transition* for folks who need to learn the basics, but not a *state* for those who should now have been weened off it. If that makes any sense. I guess it's all in how it's implemented.

To sum up - if there were seperate arenas, allow EZ mode fellahs to fly in EZ mode forever if they chose. If ya need to mix em with the MA, there should be controls that forcibly ween them off of it as they progress.

[funked]

Pyro PLEASE don't get too worked up over a few overdramatic UBB junkies...

[Minotaur]

 

Originally posted by funked:
Pyro PLEASE don't get too worked up over a few overdramatic UBB junkies...

LOL    

Oh sure Funked!  Resorting to name calling is for who?

AH....  That lame flame felt SO GOOD!  



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Mino
The Wrecking Crew