Author Topic: Can we talk energy fighters  (Read 1146 times)

Offline nopoop

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Can we talk energy fighters
« on: June 05, 2022, 02:32:04 PM »
I've always been a turn fighter lover.  Spit 5, Nicky fighter mostly. The problem being there is no escape. Even if you get a couple, you will be run down by the energy fighters..

For energy fighters the only one I have had success with is the Yak 3. It turns without horrendous E bleed and it can get away from the horde.

I love P47s, Corsairs, D9s and 51s but, I"m a bad shot. Being a bad shot, if I don't kill in the first two passes I have to exit, or....bleed energy like a stuck pig. Followed with a horrible death.

Especially with the 51 and D9 they just bleed energy and get slow real fast..  I guess the D9 is the top killer. How do you keep it fast if you can't kill on your first or second pass ???
nopoop

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Offline nrshida

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Re: Can we talk energy fighters
« Reply #1 on: June 05, 2022, 04:00:05 PM »
You can think of energy fighters falling into two categories: there's the retainers, like the P-51D, Corsairs and so on. They don't build energy very well, so what you bring to the fight is essentially what you have. Their strength lies in energy retention (assuming good operation). Those types typically dictate a boom-and-zoom strategy.

Energy builders are things like the D9, G-14, K-4 etc. Here they do not necessarily retain very well, but might have a superior thrust-to-weight ratio allowing them to build an energy advantage relative to the other fellow even in a fight.

Ah! But what about the D9, it can climb / accelerate (same thing really) AND BnZ. Correct, you can see that we're really talking about attributes and not rigid airframes. Some aircraft types have measures of these attributes. Arguably a Spit 8 will turn-fight, BnZ and energy-build and all three of those things very well, so your stratergy can be very flexible.

IMHO BnZ is the easiest to learn, safest, most effective in the MA and will allow you to develop better gunnery than either turn / manouevring / stall-fighting or - what you could call +e-fighting. But you must be disciplined and allow your tactics to be dictated by the relative situation. I learned it when Skyyr arrived on the scene and I would say about two-weeks adaptation and I had the esentials down. It is also arguably a bit robotic and boring.

IMHO +e-figthing especially combined with unconventional manoeuvring is the noblest but hardest of the art forms. But work up to that.

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Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: Can we talk energy fighters
« Reply #2 on: June 05, 2022, 04:18:45 PM »
nopoop, I know you have been around long before Aces High even went to beta back in like September of 1999, iirc...

One can "Energy Fight" in just about any aircraft if they are using their SA (Situational Awareness) in an efficient manner and know when to check out and extend before one gets to the point of SA overload!

One does have to keep their head on a swivel looking for all the potential "pickers" who just BnZ (Boom and Zoom),  for they are always looking for the easy single pass kill....

As for me and when I get a chance to play which is very seldom these days,  I  find it best for myself to try and attend  MNM and KOTH,  because I know that I can get great fights and it helps me knock off the rust quickly and helps me remember all that stuff I learned was taught and taught others...a lot of it is actually muscle memory and eventually comes back to me like 2nd nature after a bit.....heh,

I think you will be able to relate to all of what I have posted

<SALUTE>

TC

Edit:  good post,  nrshida! 👍
« Last Edit: June 05, 2022, 04:22:19 PM by TequilaChaser »
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline nopoop

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Re: Can we talk energy fighters
« Reply #3 on: June 05, 2022, 04:48:27 PM »
TC I'm trying to shake off 14 years of rust  :D  So far it's been ugly..

I love MNM. I wish it was 5 days a week !!. I find that flying after a MNM, I fly a little smarter and it doesn''t take getting killed 5 times in row to settle down and do so.

I did B&Z over at WB ALONG time ago in an A8. It does get boring fast. I like to fight. What I should do as take that 2 weeks to work on it even if it's boring. Would help to learn their E state envelope.

Wow, talking ACM and BFM on a flight board..

I like it !! Thank you all for input.
nopoop

It's ALL about the fight..

Offline TequilaChaser

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Re: Can we talk energy fighters
« Reply #4 on: June 05, 2022, 11:44:17 PM »
nrshida,  regarding your reference to when Skyyr came on to the AH scene, he actually showed up in 2009 and was flying under a different gameid for 5+ years, learning the game before he started flying under his known Skyyr name..he was using Shadow first...

Just a little bit of information regarding how long it took him after he was banned from Fighter Ace game...not that it matters either way...I am not knocking his BFM/ ACM abilities...
« Last Edit: June 05, 2022, 11:46:17 PM by TequilaChaser »
"When one considers just what they should say to a new pilot who is logging in Aces High, the mind becomes confused in the complex maze of info it is necessary for the new player to know. All of it is important; most of it vital; and all of it just too much for one brain to absorb in 1-2 lessons" TC

Offline nrshida

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Re: Can we talk energy fighters
« Reply #5 on: June 06, 2022, 03:26:05 AM »
I did B&Z over at WB ALONG time ago in an A8. It does get boring fast. I like to fight. What I should do as take that 2 weeks to work on it even if it's boring. Would help to learn their E state envelope.

Definitely. I was the stalliest of stall fighters doing little else for about 7-years. Learning to BnZ let me understand fighting against that style waaaay better than I'd have ever arrived at in isolation. Also it makes you more disciplined.


nrshida,  regarding your reference to when Skyyr came on to the AH scene...

He was always civil to me and he had some intelligent technique which a lot of people missed which is a shame. I don't really go so-far into the 'beef' / smack-talking areas of the game preferring to focus on technique. He was blatent about energy fighting which was counter to my cultural norm from the DA, so I thought I'd better learn it to not be ignorant. I think this was the video I used as a so-called 101 tutorial:



nopoop, watch and think! Perinant points if you don't mind spoilers: Zoom need not always follow Boom, it's a cylce which is sustainable if you do it right. Overshoots are inevitable and the only point you are practically vulnerable so take care there. Don't press a poor attack in a particular cycle, recognise that and reset the loop for a better, subsequent attack. Know when the game is up and escape. Also it is clear now where the OODA loop fits in!


Edit:  good post,  nrshida! 👍

Thank you sir.  :salute
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Offline FLS

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Re: Can we talk energy fighters
« Reply #6 on: June 06, 2022, 06:55:22 AM »
I've always been a turn fighter lover.  Spit 5, Nicky fighter mostly. The problem being there is no escape. Even if you get a couple, you will be run down by the energy fighters..

For energy fighters the only one I have had success with is the Yak 3. It turns without horrendous E bleed and it can get away from the horde.

I love P47s, Corsairs, D9s and 51s but, I"m a bad shot. Being a bad shot, if I don't kill in the first two passes I have to exit, or....bleed energy like a stuck pig. Followed with a horrible death.

Especially with the 51 and D9 they just bleed energy and get slow real fast..  I guess the D9 is the top killer. How do you keep it fast if you can't kill on your first or second pass ???

A fighter aircraft is only a "turn" or "energy" fighter in relation to the bandit's aircraft. If both aircraft have the same performance you can fight them either way. With dissimilar aircraft the one that can pull more G at a given speed is the turn fighter. 

Aircraft lose speed from drag and from opposing gravity. Drag is increased by turning. Turn less often and less hard and you slow down less.

A good solution to many ACM problems is a wingman. They can practice with you as well as help you in the arena.


Offline nopoop

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Re: Can we talk energy fighters
« Reply #7 on: June 06, 2022, 10:19:10 AM »
nrshida I saved the film. Going to take multiple watches to understand and practice. Con that loops I now see how I am bested when I loop. Good stuff !!
nopoop

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Offline Gooss

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Re: Can we talk energy fighters
« Reply #8 on: June 06, 2022, 04:06:05 PM »
As the hog getting BnZ'd, if you can't saddle up in three passes, stop boring me.
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