Author Topic: Electric Vehicles?  (Read 5493 times)

Offline guncrasher

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17323
Re: Electric Vehicles?
« Reply #45 on: August 14, 2022, 07:51:32 PM »
Glad you learned something.

yup thanks to you.  most anal retentive personi know. keep going since you don't know what sarcasm means.

semp
you dont want me to ho, dont point your plane at me.

Offline Shuffler

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 26836
Re: Electric Vehicles?
« Reply #46 on: August 15, 2022, 03:50:27 AM »
Tree huggers will pollute the environment in the name of anti pollution. They will ignore human rights in the name of anti pollution. They will blindly destroy the earth in the name of anti polution.
80th FS "Headhunters"

S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning In A Bottle)

Offline RotBaron

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3451
Re: Electric Vehicles?
« Reply #47 on: August 15, 2022, 04:33:22 AM »
I guess the CA condor has learned how not to fly into them. Wow, smart bird!
They're casting their bait over there, see?

Offline knorB

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 712
Re: Electric Vehicles?
« Reply #48 on: August 15, 2022, 06:21:42 AM »
yup thanks to you.  most anal retentive personi know. keep going since you don't know what sarcasm means.

semp

Best you look up.

Offline Mano

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 2186
Re: Electric Vehicles?
« Reply #49 on: August 16, 2022, 02:58:09 PM »
What is this thread about?  No one talking about BEV's.

 :rolleyes:
Everything is funny as long as it is happening to somebody else.
- Will Rogers (1879 - 1935)

Offline mikeWe9a

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 261
Re: Electric Vehicles?
« Reply #50 on: August 16, 2022, 04:36:27 PM »
Doubtful, unless you've secretly developed perpetual motion.

Nope - almost absolutely guaranteed.  Automotive engines, required to operate over wide speed ranges from idle to a few thousand RPMs, are terribly inefficient in design.  Generators, on the other hand, can be designed to operate in a sustained manner over a very narrow RPM range (+/- .5% in the case of utility power generation).  With very constrained operating conditions, the generators can be made much more efficient - or rather, they can be designed such that they operate exclusively in their most efficient operating range.  Even a small gasoline generator will be more efficient in providing power than an automotive engine over its operating range.  The trick is that an electric motor doesn't really care what RPM it is operating at as far as efficiency is concerned, and the speed of the motor is completely decoupled with the speed of the generator.  Adding a battery does add a step with losses (charging and discharging the battery is not 100% efficient), but those losses are still small compared to the loss in efficiency from using an engine, and using utility-scale power generation is even more efficient than a small generator, making up for the losses.  Additionally, the electric vehicle can use other tricks to save or regain energy, such as regenerative brakes which use the vehicle's kinetic energy to recharge the battery when slowing - this is relatively simple if the electric motors are at each wheel, since a generator is simply an electric motor being driven by the shaft. 

Overall, providing a given amount of energy to the wheels generally takes less fuel if provided in the form of electricity as opposed to mechanically transmitted from a gasoline/diesel engine.  The electrical system is of course more complex, but mechanically the vehicle can be much less complex, as the transmission and engine can be eliminated and an electric motor has very few moving parts.

Mike

Offline knorB

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 712
Re: Electric Vehicles?
« Reply #51 on: August 16, 2022, 05:46:11 PM »
huh is that why HD'd livewire gets better city range than highway?  That appears to be a loss of efficiency at sustained higher rpm.

Which would cause a need to charge more ... needing more fossil fuels to produce.

Meanwhile, my ancient tech HD gets more than double the range of that fancy livewire.

« Last Edit: August 16, 2022, 06:34:23 PM by knorB »

Offline MiloMorai

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6863
Re: Electric Vehicles?
« Reply #52 on: August 16, 2022, 06:03:35 PM »
Nope - almost absolutely guaranteed.  Automotive engines, required to operate over wide speed ranges from idle to a few thousand RPMs, are terribly inefficient in design.  Generators, on the other hand, can be designed to operate in a sustained manner over a very narrow RPM range (+/- .5% in the case of utility power generation).  With very constrained operating conditions, the generators can be made much more efficient - or rather, they can be designed such that they operate exclusively in their most efficient operating range.  Even a small gasoline generator will be more efficient in providing power than an automotive engine over its operating range.  The trick is that an electric motor doesn't really care what RPM it is operating at as far as efficiency is concerned, and the speed of the motor is completely decoupled with the speed of the generator.  Adding a battery does add a step with losses (charging and discharging the battery is not 100% efficient), but those losses are still small compared to the loss in efficiency from using an engine, and using utility-scale power generation is even more efficient than a small generator, making up for the losses.  Additionally, the electric vehicle can use other tricks to save or regain energy, such as regenerative brakes which use the vehicle's kinetic energy to recharge the battery when slowing - this is relatively simple if the electric motors are at each wheel, since a generator is simply an electric motor being driven by the shaft. 

Overall, providing a given amount of energy to the wheels generally takes less fuel if provided in the form of electricity as opposed to mechanically transmitted from a gasoline/diesel engine.  The electrical system is of course more complex, but mechanically the vehicle can be much less complex, as the transmission and engine can be eliminated and an electric motor has very few moving parts.

Mike

Good post Mike but you are talking to Neanderthals.

Offline MiloMorai

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6863
Re: Electric Vehicles?
« Reply #53 on: August 17, 2022, 04:01:00 AM »
https://www.msn.com/en-ca/autos/news/17-year-old-boy-s-electric-motor-design-could-revolutionize-evs/ar-AA10Ju0j?ocid=msedgdhp&pc=U531&cvid=4f9eefec39e342d08a613157feda264f

Robert Sansone’s synchronous reluctance motor takes top prize at the 2022 Regeneron International Science and Engineering Fair.

Offline Shuffler

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 26836
Re: Electric Vehicles?
« Reply #54 on: August 17, 2022, 09:26:44 AM »
Milo became boring some time back. I can no longer see his post.
« Last Edit: August 17, 2022, 09:28:27 AM by Shuffler »
80th FS "Headhunters"

S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning In A Bottle)

Offline knorB

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 712
Re: Electric Vehicles?
« Reply #55 on: August 17, 2022, 09:37:22 AM »
Milo became boring some time back. I can no longer see his post.

 :aok

Offline DmonSlyr

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6401
Re: Electric Vehicles?
« Reply #56 on: August 18, 2022, 06:39:22 AM »
Tree huggers will pollute the environment in the name of anti pollution. They will ignore human rights in the name of anti pollution. They will blindly destroy the earth in the name of anti polution.

Perfect example is Portland Oregon and San Francisco
The Damned(est. 1988)
-=Army of Muppets=-
2014 & 2018 KoTH ToC Champion

Offline DmonSlyr

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6401
Re: Electric Vehicles?
« Reply #57 on: August 18, 2022, 06:44:20 AM »
Dodge is making a huge mistake. Apparently they don't understand their own target market. You think people who drive Hemi Chargers and Challengers are going to switch to electric. This will be a huge mistake.
The Damned(est. 1988)
-=Army of Muppets=-
2014 & 2018 KoTH ToC Champion

Offline Chalenge

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15179
Re: Electric Vehicles?
« Reply #58 on: August 18, 2022, 10:39:32 AM »
Dodge is making a huge mistake. Apparently they don't understand their own target market. You think people who drive Hemi Chargers and Challengers are going to switch to electric. This will be a huge mistake.

Is Dodge now spelled F-I-A-T? Or is it S-T-E-L-L-A-N-T-I-S?
If you like the Sick Puppy Custom Sound Pack the please consider contributing for future updates by sending a months dues to Hitech Creations for account "Chalenge." Every little bit helps.

Offline MiloMorai

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6863
Re: Electric Vehicles?
« Reply #59 on: August 18, 2022, 10:41:11 AM »
Dodge is making a huge mistake. Apparently they don't understand their own target market. You think people who drive Hemi Chargers and Challengers are going to switch to electric. This will be a huge mistake.

What are they going to drive if there is only electric?