Supplies to Britain

[Elfie]

I love "what if" scenarios, especially those concerning dubya, dubya too.

So here's my latest "what if"... What if, Uncle Sam hadn't been shipping millions of tons of various supplies, food, raw materials, war material, etc, etc, etc, would Britain have capitulated or would someone else have stepped up to help supply her?

Personally, I think the primary language in Britain would be German now. I believe she would have capitulated sooner rather than later due to an inability to continue producing weapons.

[sparky127]

What did Churchill think of "Lend-Lease"?

[Elfie]

What did Churchill think of "Lend-Lease"?

This is exactly the sort of thing I'm talking about, "what if" Britain hadn't gotten that stuff? What then, how does dubya dubya too turn out then? Do we even get involved in Europe?

Discuss.

[Devil 505]

Your "what if" scenario makes little sense.

You either don't understand or are ignoring the fact that Britain was buying supplies with cash before Lend-Lease was passed in March 1941. They would have continued to do so, and could have afforded to maintain this status quo in the short term, probably into 1942.

You either don't understand or are ignoring the fact that Nazi Germany was fully committed to fighting the Soviet Union from June 1941. Germany was no longer a direct threat to England. The US Also began supplying the USSR under Lend-Lease beginning in October 1941. Before this, the USSR was also buying material directly from the US.

We all know that on December 7th, Japan attacked the US. But you either don't understand or are ignoring the fact that Japan also attacked British holdings in the Pacific. This makes the US and Britain allied against Japan by default at this point.

Adolf Hitler declared war on the US on December 8, making the US allied with Britain and the USSR against Nazi Germany by default at this point.

That's it. Game over for the Axis. The war is lost for them and the only question is how long it takes to actually end.

Lend-Lease sped up the process to be sure, but once the US is actively at war with Germany and Japan the die is cast. Even if both Britain and the USSR had to pay up front for supplies, the material needed that was provided for under Lend-Lease, which would not be affordable without it, would have simply been used to field more US forces directly. You would have probably seen a US army or two fielded in Russia fighting Germany.

The only possible difference I see is in North Africa. Maybe the Egyptians would be speaking Italian now.

 

[Oldman731]

Personally, I think the primary language in Britain would be German now. I believe she would have capitulated sooner rather than later due to an inability to continue producing weapons.

Eh.  There was no way the Nazis were going to make their way across the Channel.  As Devil says, the worst that would have happened was that Mussolini would have had his Mare Nostrum.

- oldman

[RotBaron]

What if the Treaty of Versailles wasn’t so punitive? 

Maybe a terrible artist would have remained just that and far from any significant annals of history. 🤔

[Elfie]

Your "what if" scenario makes little sense.

You either don't understand or are ignoring the fact that Britain was buying supplies with cash before Lend-Lease was passed in March 1941. They would have continued to do so, and could have afforded to maintain this status quo in the short term, probably into 1942.

You either don't understand or are ignoring the fact that Nazi Germany was fully committed to fighting the Soviet Union from June 1941. Germany was no longer a direct threat to England. The US Also began supplying the USSR under Lend-Lease beginning in October 1941. Before this, the USSR was also buying material directly from the US.

We all know that on December 7th, Japan attacked the US. But you either don't understand or are ignoring the fact that Japan also attacked British holdings in the Pacific. This makes the US and Britain allied against Japan by default at this point.

Adolf Hitler declared war on the US on December 8, making the US allied with Britain and the USSR against Nazi Germany by default at this point.

That's it. Game over for the Axis. The war is lost for them and the only question is how long it takes to actually end.

Lend-Lease sped up the process to be sure, but once the US is actively at war with Germany and Japan the die is cast. Even if both Britain and the USSR had to pay up front for supplies, the material needed that was provided for under Lend-Lease, which would not be affordable without it, would have simply been used to field more US forces directly. You would have probably seen a US army or two fielded in Russia fighting Germany.

The only possible difference I see is in North Africa. Maybe the Egyptians would be speaking Italian now.

Britain's coffers weren't bottomless and without outside aide wouldn't likely have survived as a nation.

I do believe you are ignoring one important aspect of the "what if" scenario and that is, we stop shipping millions of tons of supplies across the pond. In this scenario, it doesn't matter that you were paying cash previously because the things you were buying are no longer for sale.

Once you no longer have the needed supplies to sustain a war effort, what then?

If the U.S. isn't shipping supplies across the pond then it's much easier for the Germans to choke off any remaining supply lines because the Brits don't have the help they need.

[Elfie]

Eh.  There was no way the Nazis were going to make their way across the Channel.  As Devil says, the worst that would have happened was that Mussolini would have had his Mare Nostrum.

- oldman

If the U.S. wasn't shipping millions of tons of material across the pond the Germans might not have needed to invade. How do you make war without weapons or food to feed your soldiers?

[Devil 505]

Why wouldn't they?

Seem like you're being deliberately obtuse here.

[Volron]

I doubt Germany would've invaded and if they did, it would have failed.  Looking at what they had setup?  Mostly barges for landing craft to my understanding, ones that would not have cut it being towed across the channel.  And then there is the primary thing to think about, the Royal Navy.  The Royal Navy was pretty much still in pristine condition.  To my understanding they also had an order out which roughly stated: charge through the mines.  I believe the plan was to have their destroyers and light cruisers lead the heavier ships, basically act as "minesweepers".  If I also read correctly, the RN had set aside reserves to ensure they could defend the home isles from invasion by Germany.

Regardless, look at what it took to launch Operation Overloard.  The Germans didn't have anywhere near that amount of equipment, and definitely not the Naval power, and they barely had the air power.


Here is one "What If":



What if France followed through?

[MiloMorai]

When was Germany going to invade the UK? They failed in 1940 when the UK was far less prepared. The war on the Eastern Front was taking all the resources Germany could produce so what was Germany going to invade with?

[Eagler]

Any of you truly think our military complex even back then would pass up the chance to make billions?

They would have found a way to get involved..even if Pearl didn't do it..

The majority of Americans had enough with ww1 and wanted no part of ww2 until it became patriotic to care so..and were then demonized if you were against

Eagler

[Eagler]

When was Germany going to invade the UK? They failed in 1940 when the UK was far less prepared. The war on the Eastern Front was taking all the resources Germany could produce so what was Germany going to invade with?

Without taking out their airforce as they stupidity switched to civilian targets - invasion was impossible

Having the fighters stay alongside the bombers instead of wiping out the British fighters was one of drug addicted Goring biggest mistakes

With choices like this I am not sure England would have fallen to the nazis even without Americas help

Eagler

[Elfie]

Why wouldn't they?

Seem like you're being deliberately obtuse here.

This is a "what if" scenario. You're not very good at this are you?

To answer your question maybe because you guys have bad teeth?

[Elfie]

Without taking out their airforce as they stupidity switched to civilian targets - invasion was impossible

Having the fighters stay alongside the bombers instead of wiping out the British fighters was one of drug addicted Goring biggest mistakes

With choices like this I am not sure England would have fallen to the nazis even without Americas help

Eagler

After the war British figher command estimated that they were two weeks from collapsing when the Germans switched to civilian targets. Would British fighter command have lasted even that long w/o supplies from across the pond?

You guys are pretty terrible at "what if" scenarios so I'll explain a bit. A "what if" scenario disregards how the war actually went and explores how it might have gone if something different had occured, like no supplies being shipped across the pond.