What's your carry weapon?

[guncrasher]

What Eagler meant was that criminals don't abide by the law so any law passed really only affects the law abiding since they are the ones abiding by it. Laws also exist as a means to provide a legalized punishment for those that do wrong, like stealing or murder for instance. The existence of the laws doesn't prevent crime or create it. Crime exists because there is evil in the hearts of men. 

sorry but you are so wrong. not even funny Shuffler agrees with you.

let's take the crime of murder. you say it only affects the law abiding citizen, exactly how.  you mean to say the only thing stopping you from killing is the law. that's some dark way of thinking.

but you are right,  evil people can be evil.  but you can be evil without committing a crime.


semp

[bj229r]

sorry but you are so wrong. not even funny Shuffler agrees with you.

let's take the crime of murder. you say it only affects the law abiding citizen, exactly how.  you mean to say the only thing stopping you from killing is the law. that's some dark way of thinking.

but you are right,  evil people can be evil.  but you can be evil without committing a crime.


semp

What Eagler meant was that criminals don't abide by the law so any law passed really only affects the law abiding since they are the ones abiding by it. Laws also exist as a means to provide a legalized punishment for those that do wrong, like stealing or murder for instance. The existence of the laws doesn't prevent crime or create it. Crime exists because there is evil in the hearts of men.

I'm not sure how you arrive at that outcome, are you reading every 3rd word he typed?

[-gg-]

sorry, semp. You don't give good advice on CA. gun laws. lol

[Spikes]

The existence of the laws doesn't prevent crime or create it.

Technically both of these are wrong.

Laws in theory create crime because if there was not a law against something, it would not be a crime to do that thing. So if you create a law that makes something criminal, you are now creating crime.

In terms of prevent crime, laws don't prevent all crime but they do substantially minimize the probability or likelihood of someone committing a crime strictly out of fear. For example, if drinking while driving weren't a crime, many more people would do so without fear of repercussion and the possibility of issues happening in their own life (eg. jail time, losing job, losing license, etc.). But to my point, if DWI wasn't illegal, it would not be a crime to do so, so now that the law is in place, the law effectively created crime.

I will say, if someone wants to commit a crime or do something of that nature, they will find a way.

[guncrasher]

I'm not sure how you arrive at that outcome, are you reading every 3rd word he typed?

was hoping somebody would catch the error of his own statement. I purposely didn't include it the first time.

but first a question, how is a law against murder affect me.  I don't intend to commit murder.

but to expand on his statements. don't you think legalized punishment affects the criminal too. I mean they go to jail and I don't think it's a mild inconvenience.


semp

[bj229r]

(Well contingent upon where you ARE, you WON'T go to jail) The major point of his post was gun laws only affect legal owners/buyers, thus ineffective

[Arlo]

(Well contingent upon where you ARE, you WON'T go to jail) The major point of his post was gun laws only affect legal owners/buyers, thus ineffective

I never would have known that absolutely nobody has ever been arrested for breaking a gun law but for your post. 

[Elfie]

Laws in theory create crime because if there was not a law against something, it would not be a crime to do that thing. So if you create a law that makes something criminal, you are now creating crime.

In most cases the crime already exists, laws simply codify the crimes. Like the aforementioned crimes of stealing and murder, those things are already criminal in nature, laws simply codify them so we can punish the wrong doers.

[Elfie]

sorry but you are so wrong. not even funny Shuffler agrees with you.

let's take the crime of murder. you say it only affects the law abiding citizen, exactly how.  you mean to say the only thing stopping you from killing is the law. that's some dark way of thinking.

but you are right,  evil people can be evil.  but you can be evil without committing a crime.


semp

You should probably read what I wrote again because what you're saying here doesn't really match up to what I said.

[Elfie]

was hoping somebody would catch the error of his own statement. I purposely didn't include it the first time.

but first a question, how is a law against murder affect me.  I don't intend to commit murder.

but to expand on his statements. don't you think legalized punishment affects the criminal too. I mean they go to jail and I don't think it's a mild inconvenience.


semp

Why do you think the criminal goes to jail? It's certainly not because he was abiding by the laws. The law didn't affect his behavior, if it had, he wouldn't be sitting in jail next to his new wife Hubba Bubba.

[mechanic]

Too much philosophy. Not enough gun pics.

[GasTeddy]

Too much philosophy. Not enough gun pics.

And I wonder how in earth almost every topic turns to an argue. Tolerants tolerating..?   

[Toad]

If the thousands of gun laws actually deterred criminals from getting/using firearms, there wouldn't be as much gun crime as there actually is.

How many times have you seen a person arrested for some criminal act like robbery that also gets charged for being a felon in possession of a firearm?

Obviously, the prohibition on felons possessing firearms doesn't deter the thousands of criminals that get caught committing some other crime from possessing firearms.

Thus what BJ said. The thousands of gun laws essentially deter...no one. Criminals ignore those laws.

[AKIron]

The real purpose of all those gun laws isn't to deter crime but to deter gun ownership.

[Spikes]

How many times have you seen a person arrested for some criminal act like robbery that also gets charged for being a felon in possession of a firearm?

Did not take long find this based on the criteria:
1.) Arrested (eg. found, not still investigating)
2.) Armed Robbery (have to have a firearm to be charged with a firearm crime)
3.) Charged with criminal possession of a weapon

https://www.nyspnews.com/state-police-arrest-queensbury-man-after-armed-robbery.htm