Author Topic: Aces High Players in DCS  (Read 6126 times)

Offline Arlo

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Re: Aces High Players in DCS
« Reply #45 on: December 09, 2022, 04:30:01 PM »
Graphics dont bother me at all. I would still be happy even with AH1 graphics

Hell, I was happy with AWII graphics.

Offline waystin2

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Re: Aces High Players in DCS
« Reply #46 on: December 09, 2022, 05:08:52 PM »
Darkwood has an axe to grind with Aces High.  He doesn’t even play here much yet he often makes his way to this game’s forum in order to frequently promote a competitor’s game.  If you don’t care for Aces High just leave.  Move along and make the break completely.  Have fun in DCS.  We wish you well.   :cheers:
Stupid comments like this only accelerate player loss in AH.
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Offline waystin2

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Re: Aces High Players in DCS
« Reply #47 on: December 09, 2022, 05:10:53 PM »
Graphics dont bother me at all. I would still be happy even with AH1 graphics
This is true. It never was the graphics that made AH so great.
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Offline whiteman

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Re: Aces High Players in DCS
« Reply #48 on: December 09, 2022, 05:22:12 PM »
Stupid comments like this only accelerate player loss in AH.

Because coming in repeatedly to crap on the game is a real benefit.

Offline mERv

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Re: Aces High Players in DCS
« Reply #49 on: December 09, 2022, 05:26:30 PM »
I like turtles :bolt:
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Offline nrshida

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Re: Aces High Players in DCS
« Reply #50 on: December 10, 2022, 01:43:08 AM »
This is true. It never was the graphics that made AH so great.

In design there's a concept of essential details wherein elements have to only be of a sufficient level to contribute to an experience and everything beyond is wasteful.


That's an interesting statement. I'd say FM in DCS is far better then all others. IL2 is a total joke. I think AH has that beat in that area. 

I also didn't like the flight model of IL2 (all variants). I found it inconsistent. I think DCS overdoes the re-enactment theme a bit too much. I flew the K-4 a bit and found the constant engine failures to be tiresome. I don't have any sound but presumed there'd be other warning signs like visual vibration or vapours or obvious things in the guages. Anyway seems like the BS 'realism' card some people play, I mostly want to fight. I did like the Mosquito though, could get into that. Watched some YouTube videos and was saying to myself I'd do that there...

Another thing AH has is you can pick your plane and pitch it against anything you find. There've been some extraordinary specialists over the years. At the end of the day it is a human-to-human interaction through the virtual aeroplanes. Oh, and those slow rumbly things some people hide in the trees for extended periods. :bolt:
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Offline KillerPops

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Re: Aces High Players in DCS
« Reply #51 on: December 10, 2022, 04:32:40 AM »
I'd say FM in DCS is far better then all others. IL2 is a total joke. I think AH has that beat in that area.

in AH flaps are not nearly draggy enough but nowhere near as bad as that joke that IL2 is.

DCS has several flight models. The standard flight model, SFM. The advanced flight model, AFM. The professional flight model, PFM and the external flight model, EFM.

SFM is mainly used for AI aircraft. The AFM is used for a couple of aircraft, simple but OK. The PFM is used on most aircraft. It's not bad, but obviously better suited for jets than propeller driven aircraft. The EFM is as it say, external. Then it's up to the developer of the plane to define it. This can be anything from OK to complete stupidity. The "best" aircraft from partner developers typically have EFM, because they are then free to do and use whatever they see fit.

As with anything; garbage in = garbage out.

I use the Yak-52 in DCS to train aerobatics at home. The FM is the PFM, and it does a good job in recreating the real aircraft (which is why I use it). What's bad about it is at low speeds, where it behaves like Bambi on on the ice, nothing like the real aircraft. All aircraft becomes a bit "Bambi" at low speed, but it's overexaggerated in DCS. It becomes unphysical. The pitch, yaw and roll moments are all wrong compared with the effects of elevator, rudder and aileron at that speed. The same goes for all propeller aircraft there, it's painful  :cheesy:

The other thing is they are modelled to such detail is ridiculous. Some of the gear handles in WWII planes were very unorthodox. Stuff had to be uncaged, then push and hold a button, twist it, etc. All this is modelled. The point is, that fine grade modelling makes zero sense unless having an exact working replica of the handle. Ctrl-shift-h, ctrl-shift q etc etc is not how it worked  :grin: Is it as far from reality it is possible to be. Ok, the mouse can be used, as if that adds "realism"  :azn: I have yet to see a WWII fighter with a keyboard and a mouse.

IL-2 is much better in this respect. What IL-2 isn't particularly good at is out of envelope behavior. It also has some oddness here and there, but the overall behavior is physical at all speeds, thus overall the best there is IMO.

AH is not bad at all, and could also easily be used training aerobatics if it had some relevant planes (as could IL-2). A spitfire is not a Yak-52 though  :grin:

As for the EFMs in DCS, there is nothing to say except garbage in = garbage out. Very few simmers have tried a real F-14, so very few has anything relevant to say.

The funny thing is that X-plane can be used to pinpoint exactly what is wrong with the PFM in DCS. Not that X-plane is 100% correct, but it is the closest we have to a first principles approach, and is always within lets say 5-10% error. The errors in DCS is probably more like 100-200% off at low speed.

Anyway, way off topic  :grin: My point is that AH is not bad, it only need some attention. Will it ever get what it needs? DCS is in some ways spectacular, in other ways just plain stupid. The best balance can be found in IL-2 today IMO.

Offline fd ski

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Re: Aces High Players in DCS
« Reply #52 on: December 10, 2022, 05:14:51 AM »
KillerPops,

that's a well articulated opinion.
I don't have a RL experience therefore i'm just expressing my subjective opinion.
I would separate question of "flying management" from "flight model" though. This was HiTech's answer each time people asked about complex engine management - he said AH was ACM sim first and foremost and complexities of flying a particular aircraft were not relevant to that. We could make an assumption that competent pilot of a spitfire would have an instinctive habit of lowering the RPMs in climbs or switching supercharger if it was required. So if every pilot has particularities of their airplane well learned - all you have left is a flight model and AH gives us that.

DCS goes all out in the opposite direction. You need to learn those particularities and given how clumsy "mouse to push the button" interaction is - it has major drawback. Especially if in VR. What it does give us back is immersion, painful but immersion :)

IL2 is somewhere in between.

Being a busy person i don't have time to master a complex aircraft in DCS. I invested some time into Spitfire IXe and 190D but it wasn't nearly enough to have an opinion on performance or flight modeling. Overall it felt right. In spitfires i was able to turn inside most opponents, but had trouble staying with them at high speed etc. in 190D full engine with WEP made a difference, but it did drive like a bus :) In all planes - when i dropped flaps, it felt like hitting a wall, which sounds about right.

In AH people use flaps to turn spitfires in fights, that's little hardcore. In IL2 - it's even worst.

Other then some of the US fighters, I don't remember any WWII pilots using flaps to turn in consistent manner. Ok, maybe some of the IJN did as well. But dropping spitfire's barn doors to turn ? You'd be at 50 knots in a heartbeat :)

As for AH - for me it was always what HiTech created - ACM chess against multiple opponents. Fighting 3 vs 1 ( with me being 1 ) is when i get a boner. Too bad numbers are as low as they are.
   

Offline Eagler

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Re: Aces High Players in DCS
« Reply #53 on: December 10, 2022, 07:30:08 AM »
Can't get past the screaming german voice commands in my ear in il2...

Dcs is more plane wrestling than flying

AH has both of them beat hands down for a2a ww2 fun imo

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Offline nrshida

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Re: Aces High Players in DCS
« Reply #54 on: December 10, 2022, 03:09:44 PM »
AH has both of them beat hands down for a2a ww2 fun imo

If only it were more accessible and the gameplay a little more diverse...
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Offline Krupinski

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Re: Aces High Players in DCS
« Reply #55 on: December 11, 2022, 03:44:02 PM »

In AH people use flaps to turn spitfires in fights, that's little hardcore. In IL2 - it's even worst.


You are not very well versed in the IL2 flight model then, almost every plane there, spitfire included, has the best sustained turn without flaps.

Using flaps momentarily to gain an AoA advantage is totally reasonable even in reality, but it will cost you energy and hurt you in a prolonged fight.

DCS war birds are a joke, aside from the P51 which is great imo. The others feel like flying through a vacuum, there's no stability to them whatsoever.

Offline Devil 505

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Re: Aces High Players in DCS
« Reply #56 on: December 11, 2022, 03:58:33 PM »
If only it were more accessible

How is AH any less accessible than DCS or IL-2? I would grade both as awful in that regard.
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Offline nrshida

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Re: Aces High Players in DCS
« Reply #57 on: December 11, 2022, 11:23:59 PM »
How is AH any less accessible than DCS or IL-2? I would grade both as awful in that regard.

User interface. Abstracted & unintuitive gameplay. Disparity between experienced players and newcomers (especially in reference to previous point). Lack of evolvement. Single (viable) arena and activity. Restricted demographic player-base.

Assets are definitely the flight model, network code, multiplayer potential. (Largely) unrestricted plane set. Central, official / persistent servers. Support of controllers (<-vast). VR implementation. Santa flying his sleigh and dropping presents around Christmastime.

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Offline Mayhem

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Re: Aces High Players in DCS
« Reply #58 on: December 14, 2022, 08:12:24 PM »
Wow the fanboy buthurt is strong in this thread. :D
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Offline LCADolby

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Re: Aces High Players in DCS
« Reply #59 on: December 15, 2022, 12:20:40 PM »
Y'know, the more I watch Star Wars, the more I realise... The Empire was Right.
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