Author Topic: Home defense. What' you have ?  (Read 6410 times)

Offline Shuffler

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 26824
80th FS "Headhunters"

S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning In A Bottle)

Offline knorB

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 700
Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
« Reply #106 on: April 06, 2023, 11:38:43 AM »
LOL except in Tennessee.

 As long as no stupid sign, you can carry.  You cannot drink, though. They passed this because it prohibited entering any place that served alcohol.  So any restaurant that served alcohol was a no-go.

This is an enhanced license that lets you cc in area's not permitted.  State Parks and public lands as an example.

Offline Shuffler

  • Radioactive Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 26824
Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
« Reply #107 on: April 06, 2023, 11:49:09 AM »
Here we can enter any place as long as their main business is not serving alcohol.
80th FS "Headhunters"

S.A.P.P.- Secret Association Of P-38 Pilots (Lightning In A Bottle)

Offline icepac

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6807
Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
« Reply #108 on: April 07, 2023, 09:06:16 AM »

What we need are "free gun zones".........where they give away guns.

Offline knorB

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 700
Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
« Reply #109 on: April 07, 2023, 01:14:10 PM »

Offline Spikes

  • Aces High CM Staff
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15640
    • Twitch: Twitch Feed
Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
« Reply #110 on: April 07, 2023, 01:28:29 PM »
I missed this post...

https://www.mossberg.com/firearms/others/shockwave.html
The Shockwave is not a shotgun by definition. It is an other, which you can clearly see in the link.
i7-12700k | Gigabyte Z690 GAMING X | 64GB G.Skill DDR4 | EVGA 1080ti FTW3 | H150i Capellix

FlyKommando.com

Offline knorB

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 700
Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
« Reply #111 on: April 07, 2023, 02:14:15 PM »
The Shockwave is not a shotgun by definition. It is an other, which you can clearly see in the link.
Workaround for illegal NFA. 

Offline Spikes

  • Aces High CM Staff
  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 15640
    • Twitch: Twitch Feed
Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
« Reply #112 on: April 07, 2023, 03:55:40 PM »
Workaround for illegal NFA. 
Yes I am aware what Others are.
i7-12700k | Gigabyte Z690 GAMING X | 64GB G.Skill DDR4 | EVGA 1080ti FTW3 | H150i Capellix

FlyKommando.com

Offline Fencer51

  • Aces High CM Staff (Retired)
  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 4677
Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
« Reply #113 on: April 08, 2023, 07:18:45 AM »
In the mid 70s, in a town of 12,000 in rural Indiana, I grew up living next door to my grandparents.  On the other side of them was a rental home.  Guy living there shot the landlord when he stopped in to check the property.  Cops came and surrounded the place, they rubbed the aluminum siding removing the finish hugging the houses, you could tell for years after.  I was at my grandparents next door to the shooting, huddled in a bedroom with my mom, and grandparents.  Grandpa had his 12ga shotgun.  More shots exchanged.. they killed him.  He had a list of people he wanted to kill.. my family was on it. So were other neighbors.  We never had any problems with the guy hardly knew him.

You just do not know who is next door to you, or their mental state.  You are never safe.

Fast forward to 2017.  Living in a new smallish suburban town near Indy, 20yrs here, safe quiet development.  New neighbor moves in.  One Saturday steps out of house with a hand gun, starts yelling he is going to kill all of us..  his wife is screaming as he threatens her.   I call 911, and remain on the phone helping the police approach quietly, and help guide them to the correct house updating them.  I hear all their tactical radios over the phone as the 911 operator asks me questions, relays questions.   They surround the house, and take him into custody.  I get questioned by the police... I got a copy of the report, which they redacted but I was able to remove that with a PDF editor...    guy had a psychic break.. quit his meds.. told the officers he was god.. looked him up online.. he was not a Saint, previous crimes etc..

YOU NEVER KNOW..

Do I have home defense?  You bet I do.  The police responded both times, bless them, but they cannot be here all the time.
Fencer
The names of the irrelevant have been changed to protect their irrelevance.
The names of the innocent and the guilty have not been changed.
As for the innocent, everyone needs to know they are innocent –
As for the guilty… they can suck it.

Offline pallero

  • Copper Member
  • **
  • Posts: 241
Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
« Reply #114 on: April 08, 2023, 10:36:42 AM »
:rofl :rofl :rofl


The most dangerous creature on the planet….aren’t you worried she might turn on you? :noid

Need to be careful.


Offline Gman

  • Gold Member
  • *****
  • Posts: 3717
Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
« Reply #115 on: April 25, 2023, 07:00:37 PM »


I did not say that Canadians cannot defend themselves; they cannot defend possessions - especially with deadly force.


Survey says ---- XXXX --- EEEEH!!!!

Section 35 of the criminal code clearly states the law regarding defense of property.  Yes you CAN defend possessions, and the level of force required to do so escalates up the exact same force continuum that law enforcement are required to follow in Canada.

Quote
Defense of Personal Property

Assault by trespasser
(2) Where a person who is in peaceable possession of personal property lays hands on it, a trespasser who persists in attempting to keep it or take it from him or from any one lawfully assisting him shall be deemed to commit an assault without justification or provocation.
R.S., c. C-34, s. 38.

Defence with claim of right
39. (1) Every one who is in peaceable possession of personal property under a claim of right, and every one acting under his authority, is protected from criminal responsibility for defending that possession, even against a person entitled by law to possession of it, if he uses no more force than is necessary.


R.S., c. C-34, s. 39.

I know my opinion isn't going to be real popular but my background and training support it as well as actual building clearance experience. I do not like a long gun for CQB in the civilian sense of clearing an occupied building like your home. I much prefer a handgun.

For interior team tactics I think a non rifle caliber carbine is a decent choice vs full rifle caliber and or full sized rifle. I do like a shotgun but also shorter length for say clearing a commercial building where contact can range out to 10 to 20 yards or more. Again, if close quarters are the rule, like a grocery store then I prefer the handgun to avoid grappling over the weapon if you end up in arms reach of the suspect. The long gun can also be a real hazard when securing the perp because 2 hands are required to properly cuff the subject. Slings are nice but they are also convenient to use by the bad guy to try to control the wearer and or weapon in a fight.

Few civilians have any idea of how to hold the weapon in a ready position and how to "pie" corners without presenting the muzzle to anyone just out of sight around the corner / obstruction.

I'm also not a real big fan of weapon mounted lights for searching, especially if there are potential friendlies in the area being searched. Again I was trained before weapon lights were conceived as a tool to be used. I do believe they have a purpose but not for initial searching due to muzzling what ever you are lighting up. Yes I understand the concept of using the "edge of the light" rather than direct beam but you are still pointing the loud end in the general direction of what you are lighting up. Under stress bad things can and all to often do happen. If you have never been there in a deadly force situation and the stress it provides, you just do not really understand the situation. The eye typically is drawn to the brightest portion of the beam of light and the difference in brightness can make friendly ID or target detection less than optimal. I like the idea of a hand held flashlight to scan then present the weapon mounted light for targeting. Having the handheld light on a lanyard so you can just drop it and go to 2 hand hold on the handgun when appropriate is a good option to me.


I agree with many thoughts ^^above.  There are lots of tools for the job, and being trained and staying proficient with all them is important as well IMO.  Despite the large advantage in lethality that a shoulder supported weapon gives you, a handgun is easier to move with, not just in the above describe spaces, but also inside a vehicle.  I spent a lot of time inside vehicles doing PSD work and training, and getting your handgun into the fight is always faster/simpler than your rifle, while inside of a typical vehicle. 

Regarding white lights - I took Surefire's Low Light instructors course in 2005 and in 2009.  I'm no longer current, but I did see the move from using a hand held white light versus white lights fixed to weapons.  I prefer to have a white light mounted on my rifle, but also having a hand held to use with my handgun.  I was trained both ways by probably the best in the business (certainly the best hardware), and there is times where either give you an advantage.  A big one with a hand held light is that you can illuminate a room inside a typical structure by pointing the light straight at the roof, and engaging it.  That has the effect of lighting up the entire room, while it also doesn't flag your position away nearly as much, as the source is pointing up and away from any potential threats.  Try it yourself in the dark in a large room sometime. 

If I was going to use a shoulder supported weapon inside of a home, it would be a 14" Shotgun or 11" AR platform.  i have a 14" Mossberg 590 I've had for over 20 years now, with the speed stock and side saddle there are 14 rounds on the shotgun total.  The advantages a handgun offers in urban CQB, as Maverick said, are something that should be considered as well. 

Home defense is far more about what you have in terms of tools - having a good plan, rehearsing it with your family, and having things like hide out/fall back positions/rooms, body armor (cheap and available now, no reason to not have a set for every person in your home IMO), old cell phones in every room (you pay the 911 fee partially so that every phone, even ones without a plan activated, can contact 911, giving anyone in your home communication capability if they get pinned or trapped in any room in your home), and most importantly, first aid equipment and training on how to use it.  If any threats or yourself/family are wounded, L/E frequently won't let EMTs in until the scene is "secure", meanwhile you could be bleeding out from a wound that a simple tourniquet or some quick clot could have stopped.  Also, having simple things like inexpensive door jams/plates that prevent your door from being easily booted open, etc.  A good dog gives a huge advantage both in early warning as well as being a fur missile too.

Since Canada has been brought up, another thing I'll mention regarding this country and its backwards at times laws, is that what something "looks like" has been a decider in court cases here before.  If you smoke check home invaders with a tactical shotgun or a geared up AR platform, and when/if the prosecutor holds that up in court, most jurors will instantly think you're a wannabe commando nutcase.  Whereas, say the same situation happens, but you used a surplus FR8 that looks like nothing more than an old antique wooden rifle to most jurors, it won't be as likely to have a negative impact on a possible conviction. 
« Last Edit: April 25, 2023, 07:34:22 PM by Gman »

Offline Oldman731

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 9365
Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
« Reply #116 on: April 25, 2023, 07:53:15 PM »
Since Canada has been brought up, another thing I'll mention regarding this country and its backwards at times laws, is that what something "looks like" has been a decider in court cases here before.  If you smoke check home invaders with a tactical shotgun or a geared up AR platform, and when/if the prosecutor holds that up in court, most jurors will instantly think you're a wannabe commando nutcase.  Whereas, say the same situation happens, but you used a surplus FR8 that looks like nothing more than an old antique wooden rifle to most jurors, it won't be as likely to have a negative impact on a possible conviction.


I suspect this is true everywhere.  I know it's what I'd think.

- oldman

Offline Elfie

  • Platinum Member
  • ******
  • Posts: 6142
Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
« Reply #117 on: April 25, 2023, 11:33:07 PM »

Corkyjr on country jumping:
In the end you should be thankful for those players like us who switch to try and help keep things even because our willingness to do so, helps a more selfish, I want it my way player, get to fly his latewar uber ride.

Offline Eagler

  • Plutonium Member
  • *******
  • Posts: 17726
Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
« Reply #118 on: April 26, 2023, 07:42:16 AM »
Son picked up an AK last weekend and a ton of ammo and clips with a 100 round drum

First time handling one

They seem rugged but primitive compared to his other modern assault rifles

If things went wonky his gun safe would be our 1st stop as my 9mm wouldn't be enough

Eagler
"Masters of the Air" Scenario - JG27


Intel Core i7-13700KF | GIGABYTE Z790 AORUS Elite AX | 64GB G.Skill DDR5 | EVGA GeForce RTX 3070 Ti FTW3 | Vive Pro | Warthog stick | TM1600 throttle | VKB Mk.V Rudder Pedals

Offline knorB

  • Nickel Member
  • ***
  • Posts: 700
Re: Home defense. What' you have ?
« Reply #119 on: April 26, 2023, 08:37:33 AM »
clips?