Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable

[Eagler]

Yes I speak about my own experience..

I also have issues playing golf as I  cannot follow most of my shots as I lose them in flight...

Same trying to play table tennis while wearing bifocals..not easy, sometimes comical looking as I swing and miss..

Very glad AH is setup as it is as I can usually find a fight quickly and get my daily a2a fix

Eagler

[Dadtallica]

There has been a lot of discussion of technical strengths and weaknesses of all the sims mentioned but that’s only a piece of it for me, and not the biggest.

I don’t remember who called AH a casual flight sim but that is the best adjective. I fly AH because I enjoy the game style and more importantly the people I fly with regularly. I’m sure most old school AH players fall into this bucket too. Thats of course not to say that doesn’t exist in the other sims but I’m not prepared to cultivate that time. I still play IL2-1946 and the new IL2 career modes are fun but not very dynamic like you get daily here. You end up doing a lot of milk runs and the AI is somewhat sketchy.

Maybe if DCS goes heavier into WWII I will give it a go but jets and copters are not my thing. Played plenty of games with them and I get bored fast. I’m sure I will check out combat pilot and so will every other AH player lol.

Until then I am content with what I play and what we have. I am somewhat spoiled by my time zone and when I play, most nights we have good parity and good game play.

Are the other sims regularly active during off peak AH hours which I would designate as the hours of 7P-11P EST? It seems to be one of AH’s biggest issues.

[AKIron]

I remember doing glider training and entering the pattern and my instructor noting we need to keep an eye out on that Cessna to our 11 clk low.  I could not see it even though he was telling me where it was , then suddenly oh, there it is.  He saw it immediately because his wet-ware had been trained on that pattern recognition.  I had my glasses on so my eyesight should have been 20\20.  My brain just didn't recognize the pattern yet.

That brings up an interesting difference between finding a dot on a 2D screen vs finding it in yuge 3D space. On a 2D screen your eyes can focus on an entire area of the screen representing space in its infinite depth. In 3D you cannot. Of course this difference is only in effect for 2D vs real world 3D. VR is only simulated 3D and you don't have to adjust your focus for distance like irl.

[oboe]

How do you feel about the new Korea franchise?

In my experience, hardcore WWII players are pretty inflexible when it comes to genre.  They dream of WWII and they want to play WWII.  I'm curious how many die-hard WWII fans are going to embrace the new Korea franchise.

Some will no doubt, but a lot might not and may start getting annoyed as seeing WWII development be put aside.   

No knock on Korea, but it was called the Forgotten War for a reason.  I'm just not sure it will have the same emotional resonance with their current base that is there to fly WWII.  I'm not even sure they can pull it off with the driving force of their GB series producer gone.  They were pretty dysfunctional before he arrived.  I suspect the center of gravity will pull them back to that state without his guidance.

I guess we'll find out.

Seems to me DCS is much better positioned to pursue a Korean Theater.   They've already got the P-51D, the La-7 and F4U coming, they have carrier ops with WWII CV coming, they do helicopters, and they have most importantly the Sabre and the Mig-15.   

A couple early 'copters like the Sikorsky H-5 and H-19, and the Skyraider, A-26 Invader, the F9F Panther, the F-80, F-84, and maybe the F-82?   For NK add the La-9 and the IL-10.   That would pretty much complete everything wouldn't it?   

[AKIron]

I love those early jets. Don't go up against a DCS AI Mig-15 set to Ace level though. It can work the vertical like an ME-163 that never runs outta gas. They say it performs more realistically when flown by an organic. Have yet to try that.

[Animl-AW]

Last I talked to HT, he was working with Vulkan before his bad times hit. Not sure what that means.

[Animl-AW]

I actually read this thread. I actually read it because its handled like cognitive maturity. Not beating every thread about how bad AH is and how great their game is. Usually only selecting popular threads. Its rude annoying snd totally obnoxious. Ya couldn’t have a convo about so much as peas without the bashing over-selling to people who just don’t prefer what they do. The person who dies thus, reported me to dcs for mentioning AH on their boards, where I was reprimanded. That is NOT an honest broker. He didn’t like his own meds at all. He dies not have goid intentions, obviously.

This is the way it should be done, even if otherwise would not be allowed.

Some ppl in this thread have honest intensions and accept other ppls choices. That however is not what started the problem. The above IS. Beating ppl over the head in every post is just low class. I like that others new to the subject make their point without bad mouthing AH to death or its players on its own bbs. Its called a mature convo.

Brook, Fugitive, Violator made my personal points for me. AH is what I prefer. We shoild not be shamed because we sin differently than them.

Other grown adults in this don’t pound AH general with daily sledge hammer pounding on every subject. Therefore they get my ear and i appreciate their own choice as they appreciate snd respect my own. My stomping foot was never about someone elses choices, it was about the obsession to weight every subject with it like a non-stop rewind infomerrcial. Its just low class. Some have alternative agendas for being here doing it.

These other guys don’t act that way, I don’t think they do it to harm the sim, which even though the wrong place, a cognitive adult convo is refreshing. I don’t think some here do it to slam the game for “refugees”. That word is insight to intentions of those who are. Way over the top pushy. Which is horrible marketing.

I don’t like single player, AI, slim plane set, buying each plane. Doesn’t make me right nor wrong, its personal preference that I should not be shamed for. Some ppl like chocolate milk, some don’t.  “Leave me alone to enjoy what I chose to enjoy.

I honestly do appreciate how this was handled. I’ve been sharply misunderstood by those with ulterior agendas, shocking, I know. Some here will not return everyday to pound every popular thread. This I honestly do appreciate. Get it out and leave it lay. Not 1000 times. I’m expected to come here with tangled hair, spinning head and speaking in foreign languages. I respect those who respect us. So thanks for being civil and respectful to others choices. Until niw it just wasn’t done properly. Its not that much to ask.

Some listen to Taylor Swift, some listen to Black Sabbath, neither is “wrong” nor “ right”. Its personal preference. Do anything that makes you happy, but let me/us be happy too. If I’m nit respected for that, then I have no respect to show. This is how real life goes.



 

[AKIron]

I very much enjoyed the camaraderie of flying with a squad in AH years ago. Things change. I have flown AH on and off a few times over the years since. I just don't have the energy or time to invest anymore in a real person squad, in any sim. DCS certainly has hundreds of them. AI comes in handy when you want an impromptu mission now and then. It's always ready and requires no commitment.

[edge12674]

Last I talked to HT, he was working with Vulkan before his bad times hit. Not sure what that means.

I still hope to see or hear HT provide an update to AH.

When the sides are somewhat balanced, large squad ops are the best in AH compared to DCS or IL-2.  AH allows the squad members more flexibility to play the way they like (some in fighters, bombers, and GVs). 

With the ability to go PVE, I have found the enjoyment of squad ops in DCS to be more consistent 24/7.  You don't have the issue of not enough or too much enemy resistance, as it can be scaled to squad attendance.  The A/I is challenging enough to present a real danger and I don't miss the 200 nonsense.  It feels more like a group of friends working together and the enjoyment level is more consistent.  Of course you have to resign yourself to fighters whether it is air to ground, air to air, or both.

[AKIron]

One day we may be fighting AI for real. Likely get our tulips kicked.

[Animl-AW]

I very much enjoyed the camaraderie of flying with a squad in AH years ago. Things change. I have flown AH on and off a few times over the years since. I just don't have the energy or time to invest anymore in a real person squad, in any sim. DCS certainly has hundreds of them. AI comes in handy when you want an impromptu mission now and then. It's always ready and requires no commitment.

Ya I get it, it's mental thing with me, knowing AI is prolly not going to out-think me. I need that challenge of human mind. I've prolly been spoiled with full MP for so long. The adrenaline is hard to beat.

I had a squad in AW and then AH, Flying Tigers 135th, about 20-30, usually got 15 up at one time. Good times, killer squad-mates, they made me look good. Was AW GA, tech support, all that stufff. Seriously miss that stuff.

I think some THINK that I just don't like those games to protect AH, that's not it at all. I have no reason to spite someone for what they choose, I won't gain anything from it. I over-made my point about carpet bombing the bbs. We did the same for AW, you'll do the same for DCS. It's all good. I really didn't mean to imply you others do that, sometimes my wording goes south.

Because of past events, my brain wiped everything I knew about this game, to make room for coping, I'm not sure I know how to code anymore, unless I step back in it. I still have trouble with the basics of the game when I used to have all the answers. I'll prolly never come close to what I used to be. I'm struggling through it. SO I stick with the closest thing I know and hope it outlast me.

[Animl-AW]

I still hope to see or hear HT provide an update to AH.

When the sides are somewhat balanced, large squad ops are the best in AH compared to DCS or IL-2.  AH allows the squad members more flexibility to play the way they like (some in fighters, bombers, and GVs). 

With the ability to go PVE, I have found the enjoyment of squad ops in DCS to be more consistent 24/7.  You don't have the issue of not enough or too much enemy resistance, as it can be scaled to squad attendance.  The A/I is challenging enough to present a real danger and I don't miss the 200 nonsense.  It feels more like a group of friends working together and the enjoyment level is more consistent.  Of course you have to resign yourself to fighters whether it is air to ground, air to air, or both.

Devotion is a key word of the convo, I think. Once one becomes devoted to any game, nothing will match it, no matter how pretty its worded.  I think it's like a lot of things in life one likes to move when they feel they want to move. Talking people into anything, the mileage will vary. If the power of suggestion doesn't work, nothing will. leave it be. A bird will fly when it wants to.

Glad your convo went well. With some it just won't. "Be me, or die", <shrug> I was prepared for the worst that didn't happen. I love being wrong.
<S>

[Animl-AW]

I still hope to see or hear HT provide an update to AH.

When the sides are somewhat balanced, large squad ops are the best in AH compared to DCS or IL-2.  AH allows the squad members more flexibility to play the way they like (some in fighters, bombers, and GVs). 

With the ability to go PVE, I have found the enjoyment of squad ops in DCS to be more consistent 24/7.  You don't have the issue of not enough or too much enemy resistance, as it can be scaled to squad attendance.  The A/I is challenging enough to present a real danger and I don't miss the 200 nonsense.  It feels more like a group of friends working together and the enjoyment level is more consistent.  Of course you have to resign yourself to fighters whether it is air to ground, air to air, or both.

Personally, from what I've read and heard from many,.. I think it's very safe to say 2k-5k people wished he would, a lot of good memories made here many seem to want to relive again. I think that is an honest number.

[edge12674]

Devotion is a key word of the convo, I think. Once one becomes devoted to any game, nothing will match it, no matter how pretty its worded.  I think it's like a lot of things in life one likes to move when they feel they want to move. Talking people into anything, the mileage will vary. If the power of suggestion doesn't work, nothing will. leave it be. A bird will fly when it wants to.

Glad your convo went well. With some it just won't. "Be me, or die", <shrug> I was prepared for the worst that didn't happen. I love being wrong.
<S>

You are quite right about devotion.  My devotion to AH was the biggest factor to overcome.  I had purchased high end HOTAS and VR equipment and felt "forced" to check out the other competing genre programs due to the state of AH.  It was a do-or-die moment for my interest in this hobby, so I purchased MSFS 2020, IL-2, and DCS (at the urging of fellow AH squadmates).  I decided I would devote a majority of my hobby time to each program for one month.  Either I found a home or would sell my flight sim equipment and walk away from the hobby.

My experience with DCS is mirrored by several of the AH squadmates, but we all come at this hobby from different perspectives.  I really enjoy this thread.  Hearing what other players, with AH as the baseline experience, think is enlightening.  I do still hope that HT will post some news and revitalize AH.  I take encouragement that the player numbers are occasionally ticking upward. 

I do apologize if my posts seem like a sales pitch sometimes.  It is not my intention, but rather to share my experience and encourage others to keep an open mind to try out the current "state of the art" sims.  I would really like to see IL-2 and MSFS 2020 provide a free trial, like AH and DCS, so flight sim enthusiasts can make an informed comparison.

[CptTrips]

I would really like to see IL-2 and MSFS 2020 provide a free trial, like AH and DCS, so flight sim enthusiasts can make an informed comparison.

Yeah, but you can pick up a GB pretty darn cheap on sale and you then own it,  not just renting.

I've been having a similar discussion to this one with a IL2: 1946 influencer over on one of the discords.  He was open to hear about AH.  I gave him my unvarnished opinion of pro's and cons.  We made an agreement.  He is going to give AH a try and I am going to try 1946 and we will write up our evaluations and get back together at some point and compare them.

Funny thing was, it turned out I already owned 1946 on Steam.  I had just never ran it.  I think I bought it on sale for $4.99 and just forgot about it. 

AH was built on ca 2000 code base and 1946 came out I think around 2008.  But AH had a significant graphics upgrade ~2017ish, so I am going to test current AH against 1946 + one of their mod super packs.  I think that would be the fairest test.  No one flys the original vanilla version anymore.  I probably won't be able to dig in until mid Feb.


I'm curious, what made you lean toward DCS over IL2?