Author Topic: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable  (Read 36880 times)

Offline Animl-AW

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #525 on: February 15, 2024, 01:35:33 PM »
While Drano made valid points, there are a LOT more people opposing this thread of a handful of people. You made your choice and excuses while bashing AH and insulting people still putting a lot of work on it by its existence. Several who go back to the beginning of AW. We’re all starting to get pissed that this is allowed to counter our work. You gave up, cool your choice. No one else who made that same choice is being so rude to do this. Its 3-4 people vs 100s. This thread is pure disrespectful. This is low class. I would move to Pretty Mankins just because of it.

RichardWoodDweeb made a stupid remark about how player play here and hide and don’t in Pretty Manilins, well thats because there are only two playing Pretty Manakins. If you have to search so hard for s fight, yep it will be different.  Its BORING.if that POS had any fun at all  they wouldn’t have time to be here. They are more desperate than us who are preserving AH. Most boring videos I’ve ever watched.

This us a desperate act to preserve their investment at our expense. Drano’s point are separate from the fact this thread is stupid.

They are here because they are losing numbers, no fights to be had while our numbers started rising in summer.

And because this is disrespectful of the people pouring there heart into AH, I will continue to pummel this thread. This is our choice, not yours, move on to your choice. More don’t want this hete than the former players who do. Trips has zero class, which is why he’ brought others in here because most have him on ignore and not hearing his low life bs. That said, people who tweak settings provided to them is NOT. A coder, it was mocking HT with nonsense.

If there was a vote on this thread it would be hone in minutes. Its time for HT to step up and help us help him and his income. We’re getting really irritated this is allowed, when politics isn’t. Same excuse to block politics is the same reason thus should be shut down. Resoect the people helping over these very few ripping us down.

Whats more important? People preserving his game and income, or former players tearing it down? Are people preserving the game least important?
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Offline Animl-AW

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #526 on: February 15, 2024, 01:49:20 PM »
I dont do Scenarios or FSO but the first frame of the last 3 FSOs have had 75-90 players. The "Masters of the Air" scenario that just started this last weekend had over 115 players and was well received from what I hear. Are these numbers worst than before? I dont know but I hear they are still having fun.

As for the MA, with the new maps we get every few months it seems to stimulate activity in the arena. Sure there is still the number inbalance to deal with, and the Bish horde rolling bases in the morning US eastern time, but the US prime time has shades of the old days with some good fights as well as base taking action. GVs get plenty of action for the most part, and buffs get to bomb stuff.

If a new player comes in and is willing to ask for some help I couldnt see why they wouldnt want to stay. The learning curve is the biggest issue here. They see all the action going on and cant get into the fight for one reason or another due to inexperience.

All true, but the scrolled your reply
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Offline Animl-AW

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #527 on: February 15, 2024, 02:20:43 PM »
And what is wrong with that as long as there is plenty of many different types of action?

You can have all the eye candy in the world, hell it could look like real life. If your flying around for a half hour and don't see/engage an opponent and are thinking of RTB, wheres the fun in that?

Yup
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Offline Animl-AW

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #528 on: February 15, 2024, 02:27:04 PM »
What’s even funnier is former players that are so disgusted with AH and its current state, yet they won’t go away. It’s the same people that have to comment containing their unwanted input on social media instead of just scrolling on by.

It seems like the only reason they’re here is to talk negatively about AH. It’s obvious their “friends” are elsewhere. So why stay?

Yep, totally agree
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Offline Animl-AW

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #529 on: February 15, 2024, 02:31:36 PM »
I will admit that if I had spent the time I have in AH in both IL2 amd DCS I would probably have a much different view of them

What dcs is most like ah? Icons on a map, icons on the planes?

It's the inability to locate a fight and then identify the plane if I can spot one that keeps me in ah

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Online The Fugitive

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #530 on: February 15, 2024, 03:09:27 PM »
Interesting take on the current state of WWII in DCS vs other sims.  Very interested to see what happens with the PTO.  The AI Zero is already confirmed with hints that a full fidelity one is also in the works.

I wish DCS was not the only sim out there developing WWII combat aviation.



I watched the video and listened to the speaker. He may be right about the cost being the big hurdle to DCS WWII, but if you read the comments it sounds more to me that people are just bored with it. He mentioned it himself saying how he gets tired of flying over Normandie and shooting at the same planes all the time.

Players are suggesting more plane types even if it means less fidelity (active cockpit controls, switches and such) but that brings in the "realistic" crowd saying they dont think its fair that they are working hard in a cockpit while fighting and their opponent isnt because they are flying a plane with out the cockpit switches and such.

Also from watching the video it seems the guy doing the flying is horrible at fighting, or is it just that hard to keep a plane in the air. At one point he had a nice over shoot setup and all he had to do was chop his throttles add a bit of rudder and saw that guy in half. Thats another thing, do the bullets not work in there of was his aim that bad?

Also reading the comments and by what he said Aces High wasnt mentioned when comparing games, well one guys mentioned it in passing saying he had played it for years and was now flying DCS because he want to get as close to flying a WWII plane as he could and he believed that DSC had that. Is AH that unknown or just looked down on that much to less than even WarThunder?

Also by reading the comments you get the impression that these players are NOT looking for a fight. They spend hours of practice learning start up procedures, taxing, take-off, maneuvers, landing and returning to a hanging, and seem to be content with this. Once they "master" a module they run missions that either they make, or a server has loaded up (one guy was complaining that one server had the same 10 missions running over and over) where they go after AI targets. Even in the video the guy flying was running away from an enemy and all he did was some minor avoidance trying to avoid bullets until he lost enough parts to crash. No fight at all, just run away. Heaven forbid you push the plane to try to get the guy out of sync and go for an over shoot, barrel roll or something, it must be against a rule.

And for their so-called realistic sim, I have never seem a video from DSC where the players wasnt always zooming in as they scanned the skies and I know that doesnt work in the real world because I always try it when looking at the signs on the highway.


To me it looks like DCS is full of players that want pretty video, switches they can poke at (but never feel) and the satisfaction of beating AI gunners. The more I watch, the more I know it isnt for me, its just too boring, like many of their own players said. I'd rather chase down a set of B17s with a 109 and try my luck, and skill against another player or turn fight at low alts in a zero against real players in F6fs and F4us, dodging ack from a CV or BB group. Divebombing real players in tanks, ostys and wirbles trying to not only take a base but actively trying to shoot me out of the sky.

Its a shame, either the players over at DSC dont want an active battle like these, or they just dont know about them.

Offline CptTrips

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #531 on: February 15, 2024, 03:59:43 PM »
Other players (DCS, IL2 GB, WT) largely don't know about AH.  And if they did, I don't think the graphics, or fidelity would be acceptable to them.  (I think the AH FM separate from system management could give DCS a more reasonable competition.  DCS still has a nicer feel to me, but that may be graphics or something fooling me.)  But the 30 yo guy I've been talking to, never heard of AH or Warbirds or Air Warrior.  He was in diapers when AH went beta.

Put your theory to the test.  reddit.com/r/hoggit/  It was originally a DCS centric forum, but they are open to discussing other sims.  MSFS and IL2 and BMS get discussed there  regularly.  Post your questions there and get answers direct from the people you are referring to.  If your questions are honest and you show you really want to understand their POV and\or just want them to give the free trial a try, then I don't think you would run into problems.  If your attitude is that AH is better than everything in every possible way that matters, then you will probably get pushback as being unserious.  But go make your case.  The kind of people you are referring to in the comments will be posting and reading there.

That is what I am trying to do with the 1946 folks.  Trying to have an honest discussion and going out of my way to try a game I don't have plans of playing because I want to honestly understand what we are discussing and how the compare and contrast.  In return I'm asking a couple of them to at least give the two week trial a try so we can compare notes and see if we can find agreement.  Of course I am not a suggesting zero sum.  I see no reason anyone should give up 1946 to try AH and visa versa, but they are so similar in so many ways, I think there is a much better chance and some of them adding AH to their library than a DCS or IL2 BG player.  1946 is just the culmination of the legacy IL2 that started in 2001 so it is from the same general gaming epoch as AH and shares a lot of the same style.  I think there could be very beneficial cross pollination there and they seemed pretty curious.

The hurdle I'm going to have with the 1946 folks is that they got their game for ~$10 and there are player patches enhancing it. I paid $4.99 for my copy.  $15\mo is a hard sell, so all I'm suggesting is try the two week trial.  I think they owe it to themselves because because their MP is weak and AH would seem very similar but even 100 players a night would be a dream come true for them.  I can suggest that to them with a straight face.  To at least give the trial a try and evaluate it for themselves and I am honestly interested in their impressions.

To be clear, the base game is well, like AH 1.  It as great in its time but doesn't hold up now.  But it was been extensively patch and fully patched, IMHO is pretty close to AH III.  So fully patched, I think it is a reasonable comparison.


« Last Edit: February 15, 2024, 04:22:22 PM by CptTrips »
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Offline hazmatt

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #532 on: February 15, 2024, 04:07:48 PM »
I watched the video and listened to the speaker. He may be right about the cost being the big hurdle to DCS WWII, but if you read the comments it sounds more to me that people are just bored with it. He mentioned it himself saying how he gets tired of flying over Normandie and shooting at the same planes all the time.



It's interesting how people can all find a video or info to support a position and assume that everybody else thinks the same as they do.

For example: I've heard it stated many times that "IL2 servers are empty" Someone who plays AH3 during peak times logging into IL2 at the same time would say this is true. However, somebody logging into to AH3 during IL2s peak times would think the same thing about AH3.

It seems to me to come down to blue team/red team and people will find any info that will support what I already believe.

My first interest in the WWII sims started with Microprose Battle of Britain an SWOTL. Compared to those days it seems to me we are blessed with much more WWII content and most of it is multiplayer and supports VR.
Just off the top of my head some of the multi-player sims with WWII flight sim content.
AH3
Warbirds
WWII online
IL2 1946
CloD
IL2 BoX
World of warplanes
DCS
Warthunder
Linux Air Combat

And now that new companies are starting to make quality flight gear and so many VR options it seems to me that we might look back at this time as the golden age. Who knows.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2024, 04:10:17 PM by hazmatt »

Online The Fugitive

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #533 on: February 15, 2024, 04:14:22 PM »


It's interesting how people can all find a video or info to support a position and assume that everybody else thinks the same as they do.



I didnt go hunting for anything, TShark posted it himself. He plays DCS and so I checked it out.

https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,408729.msg5416335.html#msg5416335

Offline Eagler

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #534 on: February 15, 2024, 04:39:43 PM »
My guess is the majority of IL2 and DCS players have never tried AH so their opinion would not matter

I think AH has the most dedicated subscribers in any online ww2 flight sim to date

Just paying the monthly subscription proves that out .. it's the only one that has it.

Even those that now play the other two, I can't see how you still can't get $15  for a month worth of entertainment from a night or two (or three or a masters of the air event) in AH with your old flying mates and arch enemies

 :cheers:

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Offline AKIron

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #535 on: February 15, 2024, 04:41:04 PM »
I want the most realistic combat sim. I want WWII planes, choppers, and jets. I don't care who makes it. I don't care if there is more than one maker. If I could speak for others I would. Trying to do that would be just silly though.

I want a sim first. Painfully realistic. A game second.
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Offline AKIron

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #536 on: February 15, 2024, 04:44:43 PM »
My wife tells me everyone is not like me. I know she is right. But they should be. ;)
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Offline AKIron

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #537 on: February 15, 2024, 04:45:41 PM »
And I want it now.

And all.
« Last Edit: February 15, 2024, 04:55:46 PM by AKIron »
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Offline Animl-AW

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #538 on: February 15, 2024, 05:00:53 PM »
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Offline CptTrips

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Re: Simulated Aerial Combat Roundtable
« Reply #539 on: February 15, 2024, 05:03:03 PM »
My guess is the majority of IL2 and DCS players have never tried AH so their opinion would not matter

You could always go make the case on why they should.   That is what I'm doing with the 1946 folks.

Could you make a compelling argument?
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