Victoria Nuland or how we started the Ukraine war in 2014

[DmonSlyr]

A victim always has the option to surrender to an attacker.  Should we have surrendered to the Emperor of Japan after Pearl Harbor?

Yes, Zelinsky was a comic in a past profession.  Does that justify his country being invaded?
(Image removed from quote.)

HI was a US state. Ukraine is not. Big difference. 

Zelensky is just a puppet for what ever the deep state tells him to do. If you really think that guy is leading the country, you are crazy. Again, I don't think you guys fully grasp what happened in 2014. If the UN is really there for "peace" they would have gone after corrupt officials in Ukraine and avoided this. Instead they tried to impeach a president for exposing it and calling it a quid pro quo. News flash we never voted on giving Ukraine endless cash with 0 oversight in the first place.

George Soros is a bigger terrorist than Putin, and Soros has admitted in interviews he's economically crushed countries with currency manipulation. He pulls the same communist tactics in all countries just like he's doing with the Palestine campus BS in America. If you think he's a good leader. Ask yourself why Ukraine never improved a decade later after the coup?

[rabbidrabbit]

Never stated that at all..

Did the dancing comic have a peaceful way out or not?



Seems the entire thing is about nato missiles in Ukraine..we want them there and Russia doesn't

The comparison of that scenario with the United States already happened in the 60's and the United States was willing to do the same thing Russia seems to have been forced into and is now the bad guy...

Same question...you guys ready to rebuild what seems to have been one of the most corrupt nations with billions of your tax dollars while illegal immigration, record crime and our own financial future are in jeopardy?

Israel can go pound sand too imo

Eagler

It's hard to have a productive conversation with you when your frame of reference is this distorted.  If you can't objectively engage in a conversation what value does it have to you or anyone else?

[Spikes]

HI was a US state. Ukraine is not. Big difference. 

He's not comparing the US to Ukraine, he's comparing Russia attacking Ukraine to Japan attacking the US.

[mechanic]

I guess we should have just surrendered to the Emperor of Japan rather than fight.
Has there ever been a dictator you didn't have a reflexive instinct to kneel before and surrender to?

Your premise is essentially you believe there was corruption in the Ukraine government, therefore you are OK with Russia invading them.
Then you say there is corruption in our government.  I can only assume you'd be OK with Putin invading Alaska.

I mean if there is any corruption in a a country, it is OK for Putin to invade them, right?   I guess because there is no corruption in Russia.

I really don't want to open this can of worms too far. Though it is impossible for me not to continually feel the need to point out how many countries USA and Nato have invaded in the last 80 years.

Are you saying it's ok when we do it, but not when Russia does?

[Busher]

I really don't want to open this can of worms too far. Though it is impossible for me not to continually feel the need to point out how many countries USA and Nato have invaded in the last 80 years.

Are you saying it's ok when we do it, but not when Russia does?

Okay, how many?

[DmonSlyr]

He's not comparing the US to Ukraine, he's comparing Russia attacking Ukraine to Japan attacking the US.

I'm not saying that Ukraine doesn't have a right to fight back. But I am saying that the whole world shouldn't prop up Ukraine in a losing war because its ever inching closer to something bigger once Nato over steps. The US funded itself to take on the Nazis and Japanease. At some point there comes a time when one side loses and must accept a withdraw of land or face major losses of its people and then still lose the land..

[CptTrips]

I really don't want to open this can of worms too far. Though it is impossible for me not to continually feel the need to point out how many countries USA and Nato have invaded in the last 80 years.

Any country where attacks against our homeland were launched from would be justifiably under self-defense.

GW2?  Meh.  Iffy.  Really just finishing up GW1 and Sadaam still refused to comply with the conditions of the last ceasefire.  We had a standing UN authorization to use force in Iraq.  We exercised our mandate.  Did Russia have UN authorization to invade Ukraine?  Had military operations against Russia been launched from Ukraine to justify a self-defense argument?


None of our military interventions have been for the purpose of naked territorial acquisition.  Putin isn't defending against an attack.  He wants that territory and simply wants to take it by force.

You'd have to go back to the Philippine Insurrection to find that for the US, and yes I think were were wrong back in 1899.


And sorry, which countries has NATO invaded for the purposes of land acquisition?

[CptTrips]

I'm not saying that Ukraine doesn't have a right to fight back. But I am saying that the whole world shouldn't prop up Ukraine in a losing war because its ever inching closer to something bigger once Nato over steps. The US funded itself to take on the Nazis and Japanease. At some point there comes a time when one side loses and must accept a withdraw of land or face major losses of its people and then still lose the land..

Are you aware your arguments are almost exactly the same as those who wanted us to not support Britain during the Battle of Britain?

I bet you didn't realize how much  you had in common with Joseph Kennedy, Sr.

[rabbidrabbit]

I really don't want to open this can of worms too far. Though it is impossible for me not to continually feel the need to point out how many countries USA and Nato have invaded in the last 80 years.

Are you saying it's ok when we do it, but not when Russia does?

When you are in a position where you have to justify observably very bad behavior by alleging equivalency you have lost your argument.  For example, defending raping someone by saying other people raped people does not justify the action you are trying to defend. 

[DmonSlyr]

Are you aware your arguments are almost exactly the same as those who wanted us to not support Britain during the Battle of Britain.

I bet you didn't realize how much  you had in common with Joseph Kennedy.

Well we were already in war with Japan, so I could see how going into Europe would feel like a stretch for some people. Though I think Hitler was far more batcrap crazy than Putin. And given Hitlers advances to other countries, not just regions, for far more sinister reasons, I could see why more force was needed to take the regime down. And guess who worked with the ideals of Hitler? Soros, he was there, guess who comitted the coup, Soros, whose using the same tactics on Americans now. Putin doesn't want a war with NATO. Ukraine was not a UN NATO country for a reason. Nefarious actions on the Russian border by globalist activist without the UN stepping in and resolving this corruption is why Putin did what he did. I would allow him to take some regions and then call a truce. If he moves further, than you know he's bluffing. If you don't. This will just never stop and will only escalate and really put millions of European families at risk.

[mechanic]

Okay, how many?

Well ok, if you really want to know.

Since the start of the history of the USA, she has initiated in 68 countries, let's say, 'hostile incursions'. You can say 'invasions' if you want to be honest.

If we are to count all sovereign nations that the United States has  partaken in 'significant military actions' on the home soil of then shockingly it includes all but three on the planet.

Every nation on the planet except three.

Let that sink in.

[Spikes]

Well we were already in war with Japan

The Battle of Britain happened in 1940, Japan declared war on the U.S. in 1941.

[CptTrips]

Well we were already in war with Japan, so I could see how going into Europe would feel like a stretch for some people.

Uhhmmm  Battle of Britain was Summer of 1940.

Pearl Harbor was December 7, 1941.

[mechanic]

When you are in a position where you have to justify observably very bad behavior by alleging equivalency you have lost your argument.  For example, defending raping someone by saying other people raped people does not justify the action you are trying to defend.

That is not accurate at all.

To use your rapist analogy:

You can either say that Person A and Person B are both rapists.

Or You can say that neither A or B are.

You have the right to state your opinion on what constitutes rape.

What you cannot say is Person A was justified. So it was not rape. But person B was not justified so it was. The same action was committed by both people so what ever your judgment about the action it must apply to both.

[CptTrips]

I would allow him to take some regions and then call a truce.

Well, there you have it.

Reward the aggressor.  Allow them to keep their spoils and they will stop there.

Peace in our time?  Yeah, that always works.