So....time for some bunker busters ?

[Vulcan]

suitcase nuke... less a suitcase though, more a backpack nuke.

Production of the B54 Mod 1 SADM began in August 1964. The weapon was 12 inches (305 mm) diameter, 18 inches (457 mm) long and weighed 58.5 pounds (26.5 kg), and included the warhead, fuzing and firing system with a mechanical timer, ferroelectric firing set and a sealed housing. The body was constructed with aluminium forgings and moulded fibreglass, and foam-rubber insulation was used between the warhead and case. Dials were illuminated with a tritium-phosphor paint for easy night-reading. A housing for underwater emplacement was provided which included external controls.

[mechanic]

Nuclear war is not a deterrent for your enemy anymore. It is a threat that you hold over your own population to keep them in line. Been that way since the cold war.

Aside from a very industrious suitcase nuke smuggled into a city, nuclear war is a benign premise. It's just not feasible. Counter measures are so ludicrously high tech now. The stuff we do know about is pretty hot, but the stuff we don't know about is likely an order of magnitude more potent than we can even imagine.

And any way, on topic, what kind of belief system imagines that we can have nukes but others cannot. Let them have nukes. They cannot be more irresponsible and corrupt than the west during this time of late stage capitalism. In any case, nukes are a deterrent against your own population. Maybe the Persians want to be able to hold their people in line with fear just like we do.

[AKIron]

"late stage capitalism". That's a new one on me. Are you implying you know what the end of capitalism looks like? Maybe an example?

[AKIron]

Maybe check your points before answering since capitalism, communism, etc... are political in nature and therefore verboten here.

[mechanic]

"late stage capitalism". That's a new one on me. Are you implying you know what the end of capitalism looks like? Maybe an example?

It looks exactly like now. Massive wealth disparity. Rampant greed motivated organisations. One person spending 40k on a dinner while millions will never afford a house to live in. Wars perpetuated indefinitely while profits roll in. Individualistic mindsets encouraged at the expense of community.

Failure of currency. Banks lending money that doesn't exist and claiming the interest as well as the real currency that must be returned. Failing health care. Failing public services. Failing nutrition. Mental health crisis. Removal of freedoms. Censorship besieges freedom of speech. Trillions lost in corruption.

Complete disregard for the old and the disabled. Complete disregard for military veterans.

A system that rewards greed and self interest. A system that promotes psychopathy and sociopathy.

The most profitable industries are also the most destructive. War and the complete control of medicine and health care.


In short, capitalism functions most efficiently using unsustainable and exploitative methods. At some point these systems will reach such a straining point that collapse is inevitable. That is where we are now.

[Eagler]

And you would replace capitalism with?

All systems can be corrupt and selfish...I would say all are these days

Eagler

[mechanic]

I cannot claim to know the solution. Only that we all deep down know it is not this.

There is more than enough space on this planet for everyone to live, eat, work and play. There is a solution in theory. The problems are self inflicted. A vision of what human civilisation could be with global co-operation is needed. We can see the evidence of the cyclic rise and fall even in the recorded history of the last few millennia. Humans have been around in this form for at least a few hundred thousand years. It would be very naive to assume that recorded history is all there was. Somehow we need to make this go around not end like the ones before.

Evolve or collapse to repeat the cycle. It's on us. No one is coming to save us. Kardashev scale highlights exactly this point.

[Spikes]

It looks exactly like now. Massive wealth disparity. Rampant greed motivated organisations. One person spending 40k on a dinner while millions will never afford a house to live in. Wars perpetuated indefinitely while profits roll in. Individualistic mindsets encouraged at the expense of community.

Failure of currency. Banks lending money that doesn't exist and claiming the interest as well as the real currency that must be returned. Failing health care. Failing public services. Failing nutrition. Mental health crisis. Removal of freedoms. Censorship besieges freedom of speech. Trillions lost in corruption.

Complete disregard for the old and the disabled. Complete disregard for military veterans.

A system that rewards greed and self interest. A system that promotes psychopathy and sociopathy.

The most profitable industries are also the most destructive. War and the complete control of medicine and health care.


In short, capitalism functions most efficiently using unsustainable and exploitative methods. At some point these systems will reach such a straining point that collapse is inevitable. That is where we are now.

Well put.

[AKIron]

I cannot claim to know the solution. Only that we all deep down know it is not this.

There is more than enough space on this planet for everyone to live, eat, work and play. There is a solution in theory. The problems are self inflicted. A vision of what human civilisation could be with global co-operation is needed. We can see the evidence of the cyclic rise and fall even in the recorded history of the last few millennia. Humans have been around in this form for at least a few hundred thousand years. It would be very naive to assume that recorded history is all there was. Somehow we need to make this go around not end like the ones before.

Evolve or collapse to repeat the cycle. It's on us. No one is coming to save us. Kardashev scale highlights exactly this point.

You are describing human nature. Not capitalism.

[DmonSlyr]

I feel like it's crony capitalism, not necessarily direct capitalism. Ie, making it incredibly difficult for a small timers to start their own business do to extremely tough regulations to open a business, licenses and pattening costs, as well as high taxes insurance, and other fees that limit their growth potential. It's the old "lemonade stand" example. Not saying there shouldn't be barriers to entry for the safety of the public, but over bearing regulations and taxes make it tough to compete and give large businesses the advantage.

Greed and human nature effect both private and public organizations. But, public institutions are always are way more powerful that private because they effect the entire nation, not just people in the local area of the business. Its why so many powerful business leaders want to become public officials or lobby public officials. Then they can manipulate policies that help their business and make it tougher to compete for the small guy.

That is why the founding fathers of America created the system the way they did. They knew that public policies generally always stole more of their money to allow them to get ahead, so they created a system that allowed individuals to become wealthy. Which was nearly unheard of at the time.

Individual wealth is extremely important because it allows for an offset to egregious public policy and allows for the means of the public to monetarily stand up against a corrupt public authority. Thats why many socialist/communist policies keep people poor while their officials steal it all. This creates a weaker less wealthy country overall. It's why with 1.5B people China still isn't as wealthy as America even though they may have more billionaires.

IMO, another thing ruining capitalism is "market rate salaries" so all cashiers get $15 an hour at any business regardless of the size of business. Walmart should pay $25 and hour because they can afford it, and would get better quality workers, but the market rate is $15, so they pay $15 just like the small shop down the street. This keeps wages low for everyone in the industry because there is no wage competition among bigger stores. That's not how capitalism should be.

The true way to wealth is to create your own business. The harder it is to do that, the worse off a society is. That's why so many cultures from around the world have moved to America, so they can open shops and actually get ahead in life. It's the greatest system ever made, but its being manipulated as usual. There are so many wealthy people in America it would make your head spin, but I think there is such an emphasis on so many poor people that most never take a look around and see the individual wealth all around them granted to them by capitalism. For me, that is inspiration rather than envy.

[Shuffler]

When lazy bums starve, I really don't care. Get out there and bust you arse like I have if you want something. That is what i tell them.

[The Fugitive]

You are describing human nature. Not capitalism.

If it was human nature EVERYONE would be striving for the same thing, and we are not.

When lazy bums starve, I really don't care. Get out there and bust you arse like I have if you want something. That is what i tell them.

Everyone has their own goal. If its to be a lazy bum, fine, but you live or die by that sword all on your own.

[mechanic]

It's so easy to view life through only your own eyes. What does capitalism do for me? There goes that individualistic attitude mentioned earlier. I'm also doing well thanks to living in a highly developed capitalist country. Small picture stuff.

But this is the real capitalism:



Thanks for all the minerals. Sorry you died a cripple in your 30s.

Anyway, not really the hijack we were looking for.

Anyone who wants nukes can have them. Only one country (or perhaps, one alliance) so far has shown the audacity to actually use them on other humans. Whoever that was has the least right to decide who else can make their own bombs.

[AKIron]

If it was human nature EVERYONE would be striving for the same thing, and we are not.

Everyone has their own goal. If its to be a lazy bum, fine, but you live or die by that sword all on your own.

Greed and selfishness are human nature. Most will do the best they can for themselves and theirs. Many will exploit anyone and everyone they can regardless of the  government and economic systems within which they live.

[mechanic]

Greed and selfishness are human nature. Most will do the best they can for themselves and theirs. Many will exploit anyone and everyone they can regardless of the  government and economic systems within which they live.

Having travelled a fair bit and lived in different cultures, I would disagree strongly with your definition of 'most people'. But it's not about my perspective or my opinions.

So are you saying the solution to that view point you have is to to join them and be the same?