Mig23 vs F4E vs SAMs

[hazmatt]

In the game I currently play they're currently running an event called Nuclear Thunder. For the most part it's a constant furball of Mig23s vs Phantoms with a small amounts of misguided players flying A6, A7, A10, Su24, Su25, with the occasional B-52, Tu-95s.

Since I'm new to the more modern jets (I usually fly the 50ies jets with the first versions of the sidewinder) I've noticed a few things and I was curious it this translates to other jet sims.

First off, I noticed if you get above 200ft agl that ever SAM site within 50 miles will start shooting at you. I've also noticed a BIG difference in the RWRs. The Mig23 for example give you direction of the SAM and launch warning and that's it. The Su24 on the other hand will show you the direction the, SAM type, launch warning as well as a proximity warning where it will automatically star deploying chaff.

So for the most part all the planes are on the deck almost all of the time because if they pop up everybody will be shooting with them. I've also noticed that on the merge almost everyone will launch a missile head on so you have to be ready to break and deploy countermeasures as soon a they shoot.

I've also found that some of the radars (like the one in the mig23) will lock whatever is closer and don't seem to have much IFF functinality. This has led to a few team kills  on my end before I figured out that it couldn't be trusted.

I'm curious if these kind of thinks are the same across the other sims. Will my experience here translate to other jets or will I have to relearn from square one?

[The Fugitive]

Maybe ask on a "jets" forum?

[hazmatt]

Maybe ask on a "jets" forum?

I know there's guys that play AH3 that also play other games... I usta be one of them.

[AKIron]

Chinese SAMs? I wouldn't worry about 'em. 

[Animl-AW]

We know its the same 4 people who try to edge it in every chance with a low IQ (playing stupid) excuse.

No one else does it.

And when numbers go up its now expected, skimming by the same people nonstop. Get a kleenex, you earn every bit of it.

[AKIron]

More modern US jets have radar sophisticated enough to determine the type of aircraft being painted by the number/size/speed of the engine turbine blades. That's the active radar system though, not the passive.

[LCADolby]

I've also noticed that on the merge almost everyone will launch a missile head on so you have to be ready to break and deploy countermeasures as soon a they shoot.

No matter the level of technology the "joust" is the way 

[LCADolby]

We know its the same 4 people who try to edge it in every chance with a low IQ (playing stupid) excuse.

No one else does it.

And when numbers go up its now expected, skimming by the same people nonstop. Get a kleenex, you earn every bit of it.

And you are always there to de-rail as hard and as fast as you can, kleenex in hand and hard on in the other.. 

[The Fugitive]

I know there's guys that play AH3 that also play other games... I usta be one of them.

Agreed, but of all the people who post here you have what, half a dozen? Id think a jet forum would yield you more answers quicker than it would here.

[hazmatt]

Agreed, but of all the people who post here you have what, half a dozen? Id think a jet forum would yield you more answers quicker than it would here.

You're probably right but I doubt that's going to happen. Please move to jet forum if one is created.

I must say that this jet thing is a completely different animal. I still prefer the WW2 sims as I think that was the golden age but I'm finding the first and second gen fighter are fun. The third gen fighters is where it gets to overload for me. The RWR is constantly going off, missiles are flying everywhere. You line up an enemy for a shot at 10k but one of your 10 buddies in the furball crosses between you and the target and gets hit. TEAMKILL flashes on your screen.

I've only researched to the gen 2 fighters so this is really above my level of skill. I have bad outcomes most of the time with some good ones from time to time.

Recently I charged into a gaggle of enemy on the deck at around 800mph in a Mig23 shooting them all in the face. I managed to get 4 before my luck ran out. From the first missile I fired until my death was about 10 seconds lol.

I remember flying Falcon 4.0 or whatever it was back in the day and don't recall it being so brutal and from what I've seen from DCS it seems more survivable too. I heard guys talking about it before but hadn't tried it. In my experience it's really tough to survive when you have SAMs and AAMs flying all over the place and I was curious how the other jet sim compared.


 

[AKIron]

Interesting reenactment.

Warning: JETS

[Tumor]

In Jet sims, everyone running around at 100ft RALT & Face Shooting everything is a long recognized problem.  It may be a multiplayer environment, but ~nobody~ save a miniscule percentile work as a team.  I was shocked the other day when a few got it in there heads to send a SEAD dude in, followed by Ground attack with a couple providing CAP... ALL at the same time/place. But then you have to get them past the dog-sees-squirrel tendencies 98% suffer from.  On the other end, there's this.  We had massive majority on our side late one night---  So there I was, working FAC and I had 6 or 8 ground targets "smoked" (marked) on a target airfield we were hoping to capture.  4 F4's and an F-5 (who had just been struggling at hitting these same targets, WHICH is why I was there) took off from a nearby airfield, flew RIGHT OVER me, at the target, smoke and all, to chase a ~single~ MIG deep into enemy territory, kill it, run out of gas, come home and land.  Just sayin, that's fairly typical.

SAMs suck, they just do.  You have to learn countermeasures, all kinds of them, they usually work, probably.  Heaters are the worst, because there is no warning (unless your flying Red (in my sim) then you get a ridiculously accurate and effective MWS system on certain airframes). 

One server I know of has time periods in which Forward Aspect missiles are restricted.  That's nice... but Ho's are gonna Ho one way or another.  It's genetic.

Can't say much about Radar... I can just barely use them (properly).

[hazmatt]

Interesting reenactment.

Warning: JETS

The thing I find very interesting about this video is it ends the same way the F-14s vs the Mig23s in Libya did. "Lets get outta here" lolz

[hazmatt]

In Jet sims, everyone running around at 100ft RALT & Face Shooting everything is a long recognized problem.  It may be a multiplayer environment, but ~nobody~ save a miniscule percentile work as a team.  I was shocked the other day when a few got it in there heads to send a SEAD dude in, followed by Ground attack with a couple providing CAP... ALL at the same time/place. But then you have to get them past the dog-sees-squirrel tendencies 98% suffer from.  On the other end, there's this.  We had massive majority on our side late one night---  So there I was, working FAC and I had 6 or 8 ground targets "smoked" (marked) on a target airfield we were hoping to capture.  4 F4's and an F-5 (who had just been struggling at hitting these same targets, WHICH is why I was there) took off from a nearby airfield, flew RIGHT OVER me, at the target, smoke and all, to chase a ~single~ MIG deep into enemy territory, kill it, run out of gas, come home and land.  Just sayin, that's fairly typical.

SAMs suck, they just do.  You have to learn countermeasures, all kinds of them, they usually work, probably.  Heaters are the worst, because there is no warning (unless your flying Red (in my sim) then you get a ridiculously accurate and effective MWS system on certain airframes). 

One server I know of has time periods in which Forward Aspect missiles are restricted.  That's nice... but Ho's are gonna Ho one way or another.  It's genetic.

Can't say much about Radar... I can just barely use them (properly).

I tried a SEAD mission the other day but the dang SAM sight show down my ARMs. I found that to kill them I had to get close enough that they started launching at me before I shot and then I still had to shoot multiple missiles.

I've got the notching thing down but the problem is when you have two sams coming from different directions. I'm not sure it's the best tactic by what I've been doing is popping up to like 500 feet, popping some chaff and then trying to fly under the trees and hope the SAMs follow the chaff.

I've also noticed that the F4E (which is the one I have available) can't get a reliable lock even at close range to use sparrows if the enemy is on the deck but the F4Js seem to be able to lock them down low but it has no gun. (I haven't researched it so I can't fly it myself) I'm just saying what I've seen.

[Tumor]

Well, the F4E is pulse radar, no look-down-shoot-down.  You can, with work arounds (boresight/CAA).

The F4J has look-down-shoot-down capability.  Sounds like WT at least got that right.

Shrikes suck and they suck bad. Not sure on WT, but Lofting is terrible, go with Direct (as I think you explained).  You'll need to launch when your about 12ft away from the target.  Deal with it.