Let me tell a true AH story…

[LilMak]

I understand your point. I do not disagree.
I personally go on what is inclusive to new players, not lose numbers and what may be winnable right now.

IMO, asking for a complete overhaul in one flick of the switch is a high bar to meet.

Yes, it kicked up dust when this was implemented, but I also assume a lesson of cation may have been learned. Don’t expect the same in reverse.

Again, I just don’t see the masses begging for something that deep.

Hey, never say never.

Game was fine for over a decade without it. Noobs, vets, everyone knew/learned how darbar and radar rings worked. There was no magical influx of new players that came as a result but there was a rather significant exodus because of it. Making it easier for masters of the game to find and ruthlessly pound on noobs (and vets) isn’t helping retention.

[Animl-AW]

Game was fine for over a decade without it. Noobs, vets, everyone knew/learned how darbar and radar rings worked. There was no magical influx of new players that came as a result but there was a rather significant exodus because of it. Making it easier for masters of the game to find and ruthlessly pound on noobs (and vets) isn’t helping retention.

I don’t need further explanation. I already understand, and frankly, my word means nothing.

We all know what you’d like. Don’t over-talk it. Next step.

You and the part of the community that backs your concept should come to terms on what you’ll accept.

Ever sell a house?
In compromise almost no one is totally happy.

What are the 2 top changes you would accept as a minimum?

Sell that

[LilMak]

I don’t need further explanation. I already understand, and frankly, my word means nothing.

We all know what you’d like. Don’t over-talk it. Next step.

You and the part of the community that backs your concept should come to terms on what you’ll accept.

Ever sell a house?
In compromise almost no one is totally happy.

What are the 2 top changes you would accept as a minimum?

Sell that

I am compromising. I just don’t think you understand that I am.
 
Before the radar change there were dots in radar rings that didn’t show type or direction of flight. Tower went down and “dot dar” was gone.
Darbar led you to where the enemy was with a significant delay. HQ went down and darbar went away.

What was implemented was…
1- Every plane and GV is its own radar tower. With type and direction of flight.
2- Tower provides aircraft type and direction of flight inside radar ring.
3- Darbar is basically unchanged.

My compromise is leave type and direction of flight inside radar rings.
Update darbar to nearly instant is it’s easier to find enemies in flight (even segmenting darbars within grid squares essentially quartering their size).
Fortify radar towers so they can’t be gunned down in a single pass.

Most Importantly, even if everything else is ignored, eliminate GVs and planes as individual radar towers. If it has to stay, It should only be visible from the tower. Not in flight.

[Eagler]

Or continue in the direction we are going...

Display plane model, speed and altitude of enemy plane when mouse cursor is held over it..

Eagler

[Kruel]

I've never seen a combat game where the community spends as much effort as possible avoiding direct combat.

If I had it my way, everything would be displayed 24/7 where you couldn't run or hide. I'd shrink the maps and put enemy airbases next to every airbase, so no matter where you went, you couldn't avoid the enemy (except maybe rear bomber bases). Combat games should promote combat. 

[LilMak]

Or continue in the direction we are going...

Display plane model, speed and altitude of enemy plane when mouse cursor is held over it..

Eagler

Yeah. I want speed and direction for every tank I fly over too. What the heck…I want to see every player on the map.

I've never seen a combat game where the community spends as much effort as possible avoiding direct combat.

If I had it my way, everything would be displayed 24/7 where you couldn't run or hide. I'd shrink the maps and put enemy airbases next to every airbase, so no matter where you went, you couldn't avoid the enemy (except maybe rear bomber bases). Combat games should promote combat. 

The irony is icons displayed on screen is precisely how people are avoiding combat or at least combat where they might be at a disadvantage.

[Kruel]

Yeah. I want speed and direction for every tank I fly over too. What the heck…I want to see every player on the map.
The irony is icons displayed on screen is precisely how people are avoiding combat or at least combat where they might be at a disadvantage.

I disagree, it's inconsistent data + incentivized behavior that allows avoiding combat. If you display players' locations 24/7, then you can't really avoid combat, you can only make yourself harder to fight.

With the current system, you can avoid combat entirely and therefore create an advantage by going where you can't be detected. It works in reverse too, where if you encounter another player, all of their friends can see you, but you can't see their friendlies. So the optimal behavior, currently, is to hide your entire team while a lone scout finds the enemy. The current player behavior aligns with this, and that makes sense if you look at it from a logical perspective.

Turn on 24/7 radar for everyone everywhere and there's no longer an advantage in this behavior.

[Animl-AW]

I am compromising. I just don’t think you understand that I am.
 
Before the radar change there were dots in radar rings that didn’t show type or direction of flight. Tower went down and “dot dar” was gone.
Darbar led you to where the enemy was with a significant delay. HQ went down and darbar went away.

What was implemented was…
1- Every plane and GV is its own radar tower. With type and direction of flight.
2- Tower provides aircraft type and direction of flight inside radar ring.
3- Darbar is basically unchanged.

My compromise is leave type and direction of flight inside radar rings.
Update darbar to nearly instant is it’s easier to find enemies in flight (even segmenting darbars within grid squares essentially quartering their size).
Fortify radar towers so they can’t be gunned down in a single pass.

Most Importantly, even if everything else is ignored, eliminate GVs and planes as individual radar towers. If it has to stay, It should only be visible from the tower. Not in flight.

Sounds kinda fair to me.

However, hardening dar would not be realistic. Compared to RL, all I’d have to do is hit the antenna itself at the top. That’s an easy shot with 10-20 rounds. The fact it takes 130-150 20mm rounds to drop the whole thing instead can be considered already hardened.

In past times there were enough players to up and head off a hoard from getting there in the first place. I don’t think that’s a big ticket item, myself.

[Animl-AW]

BTW
GVs and planes can radio what they see. Kinda keeps the players attention/involved. That would seem realistic.

[LilMak]

I disagree, it's inconsistent data + incentivized behavior that allows avoiding combat. If you display players' locations 24/7, then you can't really avoid combat, you can only make yourself harder to fight.

With the current system, you can avoid combat entirely and therefore create an advantage by going where you can't be detected. It works in reverse too, where if you encounter another player, all of their friends can see you, but you can't see their friendlies. So the optimal behavior, currently, is to hide your entire team while a lone scout finds the enemy. The current player behavior aligns with this, and that makes sense if you look at it from a logical perspective.

Turn on 24/7 radar for everyone everywhere and there's no longer an advantage in this behavior.

I agree. That’s my point. Either even it back up so localized numbers don’t have the advantage or give the advantage to everyone all the time. What’s happening now is players are gaming the radar advantage (intentional or not) which cuts down on the action. My assumption is players enjoy some of the tactical advantages of the fog of war. After all, it’s hard to flank a position if everything is painted on the map. The actual result of everything being on radar all the time would likely be aircraft all flying 20k+.

[nrshida]

Being continuously jumped 7 on 1 the hard way -e is not combat, it's paying to be a target drone. Score / death never really meant anything significant to me, but denying players any proportionally realistic form of reward makes them promptly stop playing, and so they should.

[Blade]

How many people who were raving about AWACS & LINK16 back then are still around today?
I wish HT hadn’t let themselves be swayed by players offering those short-sighted opinions and had stuck to their original concept.
At the very least, it’s a fact that my motivation dropped significantly because of AWACS & LINK16.

[Eagler]

Let's start somewhere...

Join the chant... 

"Dots, dots, dots...." 

Eagler

[LilMak]

Let's start somewhere...

Join the chant... 

"Dots, dots, dots...." 

Eagler

I don’t think simply reverting to dots solves the core issue which is tactical and strategic advantage of the local group with the most numbers.

I don’t know what a good chant would be.

[Eagler]

It isn't the end all but would show HT is listening and willing to try a change of some sort...

Right now I don't get that feeling....

Eagler