ENY needs to count for base percentage

[Ceevee]

its absolutely ridiculous and insane eny doesnt count for base percentage, im trying to defend an entire rook horde and theres at least 4 of them there in a 262, its completely unplayabke when eny isnt counting for base percentage because theres hordes of 262s and tiger 2s when the team thats hording you has 25%
HTC if you ever read this please consider making eny affect base percentage 

[hazmatt]

You could always switch sides and get a cheap 262 ride!

[Ceevee]

You could always switch sides and get a cheap 262 ride!

then theres no fun in defending a horde, but i dont enjoy fighting against a horde of 262s, it ruins the game

[Animl-AW]

Now that I am updating again the plan is to implement a Max # of fields one country can capture from another.

HiTech

[-gg-]

One of the great things about this game is that it allows you to do so many different things. There's so many different playing styles and things to do in the game.
You really can't please everybody, but I think it's got a good balance already.

Taking bases is part of the game. And to do that you need to overwhelm the base. So it's not like you're always going to be able to defend against overwhelming numbers trying to take one of your bases. And if they have 262s and tiger tanks, they probably have EVY hugely in their favor, which means that they're probably the overall outnumbered country on the map.

Still, to me it comes back to the ENY and not the numbers or the overwhelming hordes that take over bases. That's going to happen. What I really get annoyed with is when I'm in your situation and I can't up and equal plane because of the ENY. But I'm not here to harp on that again.

I'm genuinely interested in what people really like to do in the game. Like what part of the game do you enjoy?
For me, I don't mind coming up and defending an air base even if I'm overwhelmed. I kind of like that jumping right into a fur ball low over a base and once they're trying to take the town and there's just all kinds of action going on


What I enjoy about the game is just something to do against another player or players. I'm not really into the whole base capture or even the war thing. I do it because it's fun to be part of the squad that I'm in. But I actually prefer when there's resistance and a fight can happen rather than just rolling a base.

So for me I often go just to where there's a fight if I can. It gets frustrating when you can't reach a fight and you have to try to start one and that's hit and miss. When you see a giant fight going on three sectors away between two other countries and you can't even get to it, that kind of takes the fun out of things.


But anyway, I wouldn't really worry about somebody rolling bases because that's basically part of the game

[hazmatt]

Like what part of the game do you enjoy?

Furballs. I love the fights when you have 20 or more people on each side all flailing about in one fight and you have to try to keep track of who's the threat and who you might be able to shoot.

I also loved the old massive one life FSOs where you could have easily have 50 vs 50 or more with no AWACS so most of the time you didn't know if that gaggle of planes was enemy until they were on top of you. That's where I learned the keypad sector navigation. There also were the historical plane matchups so you had to have an idea of what you were doing to be successful.

I'm getting a little excited just thinking about it!

[Dadtallica]

Can’t ever think of a time ENY bothers me I do not get it. There’s 100s of choices either pick something else or go find something else to do.

This is probably the dumbest argument there is and there’s some pretty dumb ones.

[Oldman731]

Can’t ever think of a time ENY bothers me I do not get it. There’s 100s of choices either pick something else

Agreed.

- oldman (...well...maybe not hundreds of choices, but still lots)

[-gg-]

Can somebody clearly and simply articulate the intent of ENY?

What is it designed to do in the game? I've heard people say that it's not meant to influence people's behavior it's just meant to give the team with the lower numbers a leg up.


If I as a player am under heavy ENY, what is the remedy for me? Am I supposed to enjoy it? Or am I supposed to switch sides to even out the numbers? Am I supposed to just suck it up and fly something else?

Being dismissive of people who don't like it is not a great answer for me. Like oh just do this or oh just fly something else. Because on the same type of argument people could be saying oh if you don't like being hoarded just go fly somewhere else where there's not so many people. It's like you're dismissing their concerns.


To me, when e n y kicks in and I'm not able to fly anything other than really bad planes and I'm still outnumbered trying to defend an air base, and there's nowhere else really on the map that has any fight going on, what am I supposed to do as a player? Enjoy that for the time I'm on this evening that I just don't get to enjoy the game as much because my team has three more players than some other team that's not even fighting us?


If all being equal, I would say it's much better to let the numbers be the pain in the bellybutton for people rather than the game actually penalizing people and being a pain in the bellybutton to them.

I hear it every night when they e n y kicks in strong. From my own squad mates. And there's not a lot of people on usually. It affects the game a lot more than people might want to admit. It affects players behavior that I see that happen every night. I see people complaining about it every single night. And then I see people logging off also because of it or getting sick of it.

And it's not about selfishness. It's not about all you're just mad because you can't fly a p-51. I rarely fly any planes that are five ny. I mostly fly a p-47 these days. Or maybe a Nikki.

I dislike the inherent unfairness of  being penalized in my game enjoyment because I'm supposed to sacrifice what I'm able to do against someone else in a superior plane just because they happen to be on a side that has three less players or whatever the numbers might be. I don't like that at all. I don't like not being able to match equal planes at least.

I'm not looking for any advantage for myself either. If the numbers are against me I will sit all night and defend a base and be shot down and I don't really care that doesn't bother me. Catering to complaining cry baby babies ruins every game.


So I ask again though. What is that intent of ENY? Can anybody clearly State what the actual purpose is of it and the intent in the game? What is the outcome supposed to be when that system gets implemented? Is it simply to give the side that has less numbers and advantage over the other sides? Or side?

If I am under. ENY, what is the remedy for me in the game? In other words, what am I supposed to do? Am I supposed to be changing sides to balance numbers? What is my remedy to escape the effects of ENY?

[-gg-]

Every map has huge areas that are empty. If a player is upset that they're being gangbanged, why don't they just go somewhere else? Go somewhere else on the map where there's not a giant gangbang?

Suck it up. Just like people say about ENY. Go find something else to do.

Pretty dismissive isn't that?

So there's already an in-game mechanism for dealing with being on the outnumbered side. Go fly somewhere else where you're not outnumbered. Instead of telling a player go find something else to fly when they can't fly what they want, why not just tell people go fly somewhere else if you don't like what's happening where you're flying?


I'm always looking for whatever place has some kind of action going on these days. Usually that's one or two places at the most on a map. More often than not I'm finding myself under ENY....AND outnumbered. Trying to defend a base or whatever. So I'm supposed to be happy and fly something else. I could just go fly somewhere else I guess right? Or log off

[The Fugitive]

ENY was set up to try and even the playing field (as this is a game, not war). If your team has a numerical advantage it is handicapped by not allowing you to fly the better aircraft for that team.

And I say "fly the better aircraft for that team" because to cover those saying "but I want to fly my pony!" Well you can, just switch teams. I dont think it was setup to encourage players to switch teams but its an added side effect.

I understand the reason for ENY, and really dont have much of an issue with it. I fly P47's and 109's for the most part are ENY rarely locks me out of a plane I enjoy. There are a number in my squad who howl and scream about ENY when it hits, I think its funny some times. I think ENY only bother those that let it bother them. Just fly a different plane, change your tactics, dont box your self into playing the game only one way. There are so many ways to play it.

[Shane]

Can somebody clearly and simply articulate the intent of ENY?

What is it designed to do in the game? I've heard people say that it's not meant to influence people's behavior it's just meant to give the team with the lower numbers a leg up.

Here's the full context where I quoted HT about this is a game, not war and meant to be fun and fair.  This help you understand it better?

Here you go (2004) - bold is my emphasis:  https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,127817.msg1357822.html#msg1357822

"Working together is not penalized. We are not trying to implement a system where consentrating your forces is hampered.

But it realy is a basic game concepts that all sides have the same number of players. If you don't belive that concept, please sight one case where a game is not designed with that in mind. And please do not tell me AH is war, because it is not, it is a War game. And games are ment to be fun and fair. While war is not ment to be either fair or fun.

With equal sides, doing what it takes to win , is what game play is. In AH there are multiple levels of winning, makeing a capture,just shooting down more people than shot you down, ending the war. All are items of game play in AH.

Having more on your team gives your side an unfair advantage to all other sides. All items of game play are effected by that imbalance. And there realy is nothing that the sides with less numbers can do about it. They can not swith countries to even the numbers, if they move to the country with more numbers it just makes everything worse. They could make a treaty, but that only works in a defensive mode.

Equal sides is such a basic consept that over the life of AH the sides have maintained a fairly equal number, the resone is realy simple, people have more fun when the sides are equal.

So now the question becomes not IF the sides should be equal,
but how to accomplish that equality with least impact to the social apspect of the game.


HiTech

[-gg-]

Okay. That's a good explanation.

By the way, approaching this as a debate and not a personal argument or anything.

From my point of view, that might not actually be what the result is though.
 For ENY to go away, something has to change in the current situation. One side has to either get more players or another side has to get less players.

The first thing that I think that happens is that the side that has the eny kicking in hard will mostly get discouraged after a while and they are either going to sit in the tower or log off and then the eny goes away. So in my opinion, that's what I'm seeing happening. The effect of it actually. So yeah it does balance the numbers but not in a good way.


Also what is happening is that the system is penalizing individual players just because they happen to be on a side that has slightly more numbers than the other side in many cases. Not even local number advantage. So what I see happening and what I feel happens to me personally is that my enjoyment of the game goes down because, at my expense, someone else is getting an advantage so that they can have a better time playing the game.

In reality if you just removed the eny the same situations will always be happening. There will be a side that has more numbers than the other no matter what. It's just that you're not manipulating the gameplay or penalizing people. If people are unhappy being outnumbered they can log off just as much as somebody who's unhappy with the e and y will log off.

Not only do I feel that it's inherently unfair, I think that it just doesn't work the way it's meant to work.

I like an even playing field for everybody and let the numbers fall where they will. Encourage people to switch sides or whatever. Give them bonuses to switch sides or do whatever to even numbers if that's what people want. I personally don't care about the numbers. It ebbs and flows every single night.

There are so few players in primetime that it doesn't even matter that much.


So to add an irritant like e and y into the equation really in my opinion only adds to people's irritation at things in the game that don't need to be there to be irritating them in the first place.

[Shane]

Okay. That's a good explanation.

By the way, approaching this as a debate and not a personal argument or anything.

From my point of view, that might not actually be what the result is though.
 For ENY to go away, something has to change in the current situation. One side has to either get more players or another side has to get less players.

I prefer "not good balance" over "very bad imbalance."

[-gg-]

Here's the full context where I quoted HT about this is a game, not war and meant to be fun and fair.  This help you understand it better?

Here you go (2004) - bold is my emphasis:  https://bbs.hitechcreations.com/smf/index.php/topic,127817.msg1357822.html#msg1357822

"Working together is not penalized. We are not trying to implement a system where consentrating your forces is hampered.

But it realy is a basic game concepts that all sides have the same number of players. If you don't belive that concept, please sight one case where a game is not designed with that in mind. And please do not tell me AH is war, because it is not, it is a War game. And games are ment to be fun and fair. While war is not ment to be either fair or fun.

With equal sides, doing what it takes to win , is what game play is. In AH there are multiple levels of winning, makeing a capture,just shooting down more people than shot you down, ending the war. All are items of game play in AH.

Having more on your team gives your side an unfair advantage to all other sides. All items of game play are effected by that imbalance. And there realy is nothing that the sides with less numbers can do about it. They can not swith countries to even the numbers, if they move to the country with more numbers it just makes everything worse. They could make a treaty, but that only works in a defensive mode.

Equal sides is such a basic consept that over the life of AH the sides have maintained a fairly equal number, the resone is realy simple, people have more fun when the sides are equal.

So now the question becomes not IF the sides should be equal,
but how to accomplish that equality with least impact to the social apspect of the game.


HiTech

Okay so that helps clarify what I suspected. The goal is to get people to change sides and equalize the numbers. That's fine.

It doesn't actually work in a way that he probably wants it to work. Because I think that what happens is that more often people will sit in the tower or log off before they will switch sides to even the numbers. And so yeah, e n y does even the numbers but it's not because people are staying in the game and saying hey let's go to the side that has less numbers and equalize the numbers.


And then on a local level, I find that maybe 80% of the time or more when I'm being penalized with e n y I'm in an area of the map where I am actually outnumbered and getting affected by e n y.


Plus the fact that the numbers are so low to begin with that two or three people more on one side affects another country that's not even fighting that side