Author Topic: T-34 repetitive shooting AC down is near imporrible.  (Read 1188 times)

Offline hazmatt

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Re: T-34 repetitive shooting AC down is near imporrible.
« Reply #30 on: October 30, 2026, 07:57:15 AM »
Approximately 44,900 T-34s were lost to enemy action during the war 82% of total production.

That's an interesting stat I did not know!

Offline hitech

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Re: T-34 repetitive shooting AC down is near imporrible.
« Reply #31 on: October 30, 2026, 10:43:20 AM »
On a somewhat unrelated topic but kind of related.........

Why don't we have multiplayer tank Crews in AcesHigh? Similar to the way our competition does in other Games/Sims?

Or is that a bridge too far?

We used to, then I choose to model the tank as a system instead of each station. Usage went up 3 fold after the change.

HiTech

Offline Wiley

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Re: T-34 repetitive shooting AC down is near imporrible.
« Reply #32 on: October 30, 2026, 10:47:14 AM »
So if some of them weren’t there or were killed in action and it was just the one guy, did he not know what to do? I’m pretty sure he could’ve fired the stupid gun.

This has become a really silly argument now.

Sure he likely could, but unless his limbs and neck were REALLY abnormally long and flexible, I am skeptical he could do it with his head stuck out the hatch on the turret.

Wiley.
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Offline Eagler

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Re: T-34 repetitive shooting AC down is near imporrible.
« Reply #33 on: October 30, 2026, 12:19:52 PM »
I'm sure Bratt Pitt could do it ... :banana: :banana: :banana:

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Offline CptTrips

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Re: T-34 repetitive shooting AC down is near imporrible.
« Reply #34 on: October 30, 2026, 12:23:14 PM »
Toxic, psychotic, self-aggrandizing drama queens simply aren't worth me spending my time on.

Offline hazmatt

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Re: T-34 repetitive shooting AC down is near imporrible.
« Reply #35 on: October 30, 2026, 03:17:18 PM »
Chuck Norris could with both hands tied behind his back...

Offline Dadtallica

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Re: T-34 repetitive shooting AC down is near imporrible.
« Reply #36 on: October 30, 2026, 03:18:00 PM »
Sure he likely could, but unless his limbs and neck were REALLY abnormally long and flexible, I am skeptical he could do it with his head stuck out the hatch on the turret.

Wiley.

Or could we just assume you have AI teammate just like when you’re shooting in your bomber guns that are down there doing the stuff anyway???

Are we really gonna die on this hill?
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Offline Wiley

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Re: T-34 repetitive shooting AC down is near imporrible.
« Reply #37 on: October 30, 2026, 04:12:36 PM »
Or could we just assume you have AI teammate just like when you’re shooting in your bomber guns that are down there doing the stuff anyway???

Are we really gonna die on this hill?

Good point. A case could likely be made for bomber gunnery being a bit too good too.

When it creates an outcome that is V A S T L Y at odds with reality, I don't think considering ways to limit it is out of line at all.

Are you saying the gunner and driver could move the tank from the commander's instructions instantly with enough precision for accurate gunnery? I am a bit skeptical.

I just think most of the issue could be solved by the gun not being precisely aimable from the commander position.

Wiley.
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Offline Wiley

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Re: T-34 repetitive shooting AC down is near imporrible.
« Reply #38 on: October 30, 2026, 04:36:59 PM »
Got it. Have the commander's position work off voice commands to turn and elevate the gun and tell the driver what to do.  :joystick:

Wiley.
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Offline save

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Re: T-34 repetitive shooting AC down is near imporrible.
« Reply #39 on: October 30, 2026, 04:53:53 PM »

Changing from Commander to gun position to gunners takes about 3-4 seconds if the gunners seat are already empty in most tanks. The gunner sit between commanders legs below.

In the west, you start as a loader, then proceed to be a driver, then gunner, and finally, Commander - then Platoon Commander of 3-5 tanks depending on army. To be a company commander you to need to be commissioned.

The commander can do all others work, the gunner can do loading and driving etc. Commanders took the highest casualties because normally you had the hatch open to get a 360 view.


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Offline Dadtallica

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Re: T-34 repetitive shooting AC down is near imporrible.
« Reply #40 on: October 30, 2026, 05:11:43 PM »
Good point. A case could likely be made for bomber gunnery being a bit too good too.

When it creates an outcome that is V A S T L Y at odds with reality, I don't think considering ways to limit it is out of line at all.

Are you saying the gunner and driver could move the tank from the commander's instructions instantly with enough precision for accurate gunnery? I am a bit skeptical.

I just think most of the issue could be solved by the gun not being precisely aimable from the commander position.

Wiley.

I’m mostly saying you’re putting way too much thought into it and just pretend you have people in the tank doing stuff!
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Offline 8thJinx

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Re: T-34 repetitive shooting AC down is near imporrible.
« Reply #41 on: October 30, 2026, 07:52:38 PM »
Main gunner guy here.  You can go ahead and do away with main gunning aircraft the same day you do away with triple plane bomber formations carpet bombing your own town or base to kill enemy GVs in it/on it, and doing no damage to the structures.  Or the same day you do away with A-20's releasing regular non-parachute bombs any lower than their designed bombing altitude of 8500 feet.
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Offline hitech

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Re: T-34 repetitive shooting AC down is near imporrible.
« Reply #42 on: October 30, 2026, 08:27:40 PM »
Main gunner guy here.  You can go ahead and do away with main gunning aircraft the same day you do away with triple plane bomber formations carpet bombing your own town or base to kill enemy GVs in it/on it, and doing no damage to the structures.  Or the same day you do away with A-20's releasing regular non-parachute bombs any lower than their designed bombing altitude of 8500 feet.

What you're talking about is selective realism, and it always drives me nuts. Somebody picks one item in the game and says it's not realistic, while ignoring all the other decisions we make because we're dealing with a PC, a joystick that isn't anything like the real thing, a flat screen, and one person instead of a crew.

A few examples:

  • A real stick moves when you trim. Ours can't, because they are spring-loaded to return to center.
  • A real airplane takes a good 30 minutes to preflight before you're ready to take off. Ours are ready in 5 seconds.
  • Real people die once in their lives. We die 1,000 times an hour.
  • Real pilots didn't get five-kill sorties five times in a row. For some of our players that isn't unusual at all.
  • Real tanks had a crew of four, with several sets of eyes watching what was going on. We have two eyes on a flat screen.
  • Real bombers had multiple gunners looking every which way. We have two eyes looking at a flat screen.

There are a bunch of choices we make that have nothing to do with modeling a single position accurately. It's all about an accurate representation of the entire system.

HiTech

Offline Animl-AW

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Re: T-34 repetitive shooting AC down is near imporrible.
« Reply #43 on: October 30, 2026, 11:21:49 PM »
The main thing that will make any sim unrealistic and accusations flying like comets;

In RL you would never ever get this amount of practice of any one item, better yet many.
The "Annie Oakley" effect of  using a .22 cal rifle in target tricks like splitting a playing card takes us out of the realm of any "norm". No matter the opinion, the brain grabs on to it, sometimes distracted by it.

The human brain is incredibly good at detecting skill in games, especially when someone performs something so precise, fast, or unexpected that it almost feels impossible.

Your brain is constantly predicting what will happen next. What's interesting is that your brain doesn't just recognize the action itself. It recognizes the difference between what it expects a human to be capable of and what it just witnessed. This happens through a process called predictive processing. When someone performs an incredible skill, your brain notices that the result doesn't match its prediction.

Your brain is constantly learning what is normal. When it encounters something that breaks those expectations, it detects an anomaly.
This is closely related to prediction error: your brain expected one outcome, but something very different happened. An anomaly doesn't necessarily mean something is impossible. It means something is sufficiently unusual that your existing understanding struggles to explain it.

In the 90s I worked with David Copperfield. I helped test the trick props. I did a 7 show run with him, so it was almost daily. What my brain had to grasp was, the theatrical lead-up is actually seeding the viewer's brain and setting it up on what it should expect. Your eyes will not be where they should be. Those tricks were so easily done it shocked me that anyone was fooled. But when I watched the show, after spending hours setting up special lav microphone systems, testing lights for shadows in the right places, sight-lines...etc. then seeing it operate it was convincing, even though I knew how it was done.

Point being. The practice level of skill is a mental distraction within itself....in any game. It would not happen like that in RL without 10,000 hours of practice. So the repetitive gaming environment creates anomalies.

I can see a nose-on approach of an AC to a tank is a smaller but steady predictable target. I thought about well the way it's setup it pulls us into that extra edge, but then,... would we need a 3-4 player crew to run the tank if that was separated? I think any game would allow you to bounce around.

But wait there's more,... The human body can suffer serious internal injuries if bounced around like some fly.


All that said; B-17 "Death Stars", loaded with 6-8 players were epic fun.





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Offline Dadtallica

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Re: T-34 repetitive shooting AC down is near imporrible.
« Reply #44 on: October 31, 2026, 12:13:53 AM »
What you're talking about is selective realism, and it always drives me nuts. Somebody picks one item in the game and says it's not realistic, while ignoring all the other decisions we make because we're dealing with a PC, a joystick that isn't anything like the real thing, a flat screen, and one person instead of a crew.

A few examples:

  • A real stick moves when you trim. Ours can't, because they are spring-loaded to return to center.
  • A real airplane takes a good 30 minutes to preflight before you're ready to take off. Ours are ready in 5 seconds.
  • Real people die once in their lives. We die 1,000 times an hour.
  • Real pilots didn't get five-kill sorties five times in a row. For some of our players that isn't unusual at all.
  • Real tanks had a crew of four, with several sets of eyes watching what was going on. We have two eyes on a flat screen.
  • Real bombers had multiple gunners looking every which way. We have two eyes looking at a flat screen.

There are a bunch of choices we make that have nothing to do with modeling a single position accurately. It's all about an accurate representation of the entire system.

HiTech

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October Player Poll Results

Back in 2022 after a loooooong break from 2010. Old name Ratpack, same for the BBS. Old squads, Excaliburs, 172nd Rabid Dawgs.