everyone enjoys psychic instant Flak.

[Pyro]

Which time Easy?

I liked the flak the way we had it before, but it was causing a massive framerate hit and bringing a lot of people's computers to its knees.  



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Doug "Pyro" Balmos
HiTech Creations

[LePaul]

 

Originally posted by Cobra:
Not a flame or cheerleading (but nice constructive addition to the thread gatt   )

But LePaul, how many sorties over flak have you flown and on those sorties how many times has a single, first flak hit got you.?  Everytime....80%...50%...25%?  And was it the first flak burst that you saw, or one after many?  What I'm trying to get out, is your post above typical of every sortie you have over flak?  Or was it your first sortie over flak, or was it one of many sorties over flak, but the first time you got hit like that?

Hi Cobra,

In the case of large fields like 12, that have the 88mms, I'd have to say I'm getting flak damage or kills about 75% of the time.  No such trouble on the smaller fields since I stay above the aaa range.

I agree with what you say, but as Ripsnort described, one *poof* and you are in the tower.  I was pretty far out when this happened to me.

I can't put my finger on it but its a little kooky at best.  I can see the acks doing damage and such, but I'm having a pretty high rate of death over those big bases, even if there are other aircrft below or ahead of me.  

I see your point, Cobra, I do.  But as I mentioned before, there's a fine line between being ultra-realistic and taking it back a notch for playability.  Its nice the acks are as deadly as they are, if its your base being egged.  But for the bomber guys dying one ping deaths, its keeping a some of them out of the bombers.

Take care.



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Paul J. Busiere

Aces High Arena handle:  BD5Pilot
 http://bd5.checksix.net
BD-5 "T" (TurboProp) 90% complete, first flight in 2001 (We hope!)

[easymo]

  jThe last time  

[sling322]

I dont understand all this complaining at all.  I have never had a problem in the fleet flak or field flak either one.  I have received a ping a time or two but have never witnessed the "ping of death" that everyone claims happens to them all the time.  Are you guys sure you arent exaggerating just a little here?  

I have also found that the more straight and level I fly through CV ack, the less likely it will hit me.  Seems that no evasives are the best way to avoid it.  

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Sling322
Not a Monitor!
Fat Drunk "Chute Shooting" Bastards

[LePaul]

 

Originally posted by sling322:
I dont understand all this complaining at all.  I have never had a problem in the fleet flak or field flak either one.  I have received a ping a time or two but have never witnessed the "ping of death" that everyone claims happens to them all the time.  Are you guys sure you arent exaggerating just a little here?    

I have also found that the more straight and level I fly through CV ack, the less likely it will hit me.  Seems that no evasives are the best way to avoid it.    

No exaggerating, Sling.  and I've flown both ways...straight and level, or evasives...one puffy poo and I'm in the tower again.  Not even a flaming wreckage to look at.

And its not a whine, just a discussion on it.  




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Paul J. Busiere

Aces High Arena handle:  BD5Pilot
 http://bd5.checksix.net
BD-5 "T" (TurboProp) 90% complete, first flight in 2001 (We hope!)

[Phantom121]

I am not a dedicated buff pilot but I do fly them a fair amount.  I have only been killed by flak a couple of times in a bomber.  Both were when I was over 20k. I don't like climbing forever (lazy) some most of my bomb runs are about 12 to 14k.  I see a lot of flak over large bases, ports and CV's but they seldom hit (lucky, I guess), but one hit is all it takes , though you can  survive a few near misses.  I agree with Rip, it seems some fighters "attract" flak
more than others.  I get killed by flak in P47 more other than any other.  AAA near CV's is lethal but watching documentaries it seems fairly realistic. Just my 2 cents.

[Citabria]

 

I liked the flak the way we had it before, but it was causing a massive framerate hit and bringing a lot of people's computers to its knees.

 
the flak was awsome the way it used to be.
you could fly in a random pattern and watch as the flak would explode where you would have been if you didnt change course. it was deadly to anyone flying in a straight line.

it is different now. travel time for the shells has been completely removed. it takes 0 seconds for flak to fire, travel to the target and explode. the ack always explodes within an area of 300 yards from the aircraft no matter how violently the aircraft maneuvers. maneuvering out of the way isn't even an option with this flak code.


it is a grey area similar to night time. if people don't enjoy it they will log off or go where there isn't flak. this is unfortunate because it is detracting from the game in a significant way.

the Flak is repetitive: 5 booms every few seconds near cv's.

the flak is predictable: if you are in range you will be fired at and fired at instantaneously, negating your planes maneuverability.


HTC may not notice it right away. but this flak AI code is hurting Aces High. a game about multiplayer interaction. not ai firing in an unwavering predictable fashion.


some people like the night time, some people may like the current flak ai also. the rest log off or go somewhere else.

[MrSiD]

It seems that the ack is behaving very differently with different players / computers.

My presumtion is that the ack is calculated individually on players FE and this is the cause of the anomalies we see. I'd also expect the owners of fast computers to get more accurate ack..

Nobody from HTC has verified my suspicions so far. So is it true? And what can we do about it?

[Cobra]

Yikes LePaul,
You are definately seeing a much higher rate of getting hit by flak than I am.  That is weird.  Are you in a formation when this happens or solo.  The reason I ask, (and this is counter-intuitive, but true) is that I come out better if I'm solo in the Flak.  If I'm in formation with 2,3 or 4 others, the Flak will always get at least 1 or 2 of them, and will hit them square.

I'm with Pyro and Cit...the flak the way it was before was great!  Much better than we have now.

Cobra

[LePaul]

 

Originally posted by Cobra:
Yikes LePaul,
You are definately seeing a much higher rate of getting hit by flak than I am.  That is weird.  Are you in a formation when this happens or solo.  The reason I ask, (and this is counter-intuitive, but true) is that I come out better if I'm solo in the Flak.  If I'm in formation with 2,3 or 4 others, the Flak will always get at least 1 or 2 of them, and will hit them square.

I'm with Pyro and Cit...the flak the way it was before was great!  Much better than we have now.

Cobra

Hi again  

I'm usually flying solo...come on!  I'm flying Knights...escort?  Cooperation? LOL...Hey, If I could talk Ripsnort into flying that high with me! <jab jab..jest!>

I don't recall what the prior ack setup was.  I'd sure like to try it that way, because at least there is a method to the madness, so to speak, which gives us poor bomber fools a fighting chance.  (Speaking of prior, Pyro, how about the craters inflicting damage coming back as it was in a prior build?    )

Someone asked if computer speed made a difference....for what its worth, Im a Pentium II 450, 256mb ram & 3DFX Voodoo 3 3000.  I'm not super fast, more like in the middle by today's standards.

BTW:  Nice to see a civil discussion!



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Paul J. Busiere

Aces High Arena handle:  BD5Pilot
 http://bd5.checksix.net
BD-5 "T" (TurboProp) 90% complete, first flight in 2001 (We hope!)

[MiG Eater]

With no changes to my connection or computer during the last 6 tours, I have yet to be killed by fleet ack this month.  Previous months in the island terrain I've suffered many deaths including some first-burst deaths.  I realized that I'm flying differently this tour.  As soon as flak appears around my airplane, I move out of range or drop below the floor of the flak bursts.  For a single bomber flying straight and level over a fleet, I think that the AI flak has too little effect.  Thats a big target .  However, I've lost a lot more fighters while maneuvering to AI ack than bombers where I was flying a steady course at a constant altitude.  

Realize the reason that anti aircraft fire exists.  Its sole purpose is act as a defense around a high value target and make an attacker's job as difficult as possible trying to get to that target.  If its effectiveness is reduced to that of mere eye candy why have it at all? A single fighter already has the ability to attack and sink a carrier instantly with relative impunity despite the current AI ack design.  

I don't believe relying only on human gunners is the answer in a flight sim.  Who wants to be forced to sit in a ship when you want to fly?  A fleet or HQ with no gunners would have absolutely no protection above the zip gun effectiveness ceiling - very much like most of the airfields.  Does anyone think a single bomber could fly over an enemy airbase in WW2 at 8000' in broad daylight with absolutely no risk of being hit by base defenses?  We see this all the time and if fleet defenses were as ineffective above 7,500' as base defense, we'd see a lot more.  Often there aren't even enough pilots to fly an intercept much less take someone out of a pilot's seat and put them behind a gun.  "Country airplane availability quota reached, would you like to sit in a gun turret?"  Nope.

I agree that changes would add to the percieved realism of the AI flak, but not by making it less effective per se or eliminating it.

MiG


[This message has been edited by MiG Eater (edited 04-12-2001).]

[Gunslayer]

This is For Pyro. I really loved the way the flak was too. Then you flew over the enemy cv it looked just like a war film. You should change it back and make all these guys playing aces on Pentium 100mhz upgrade  

On a more serious note though, I would like to see a few more graphics options for us guys with fast computers. RIght now aces is pegged at 75 fps at all times for me (75hz is my monitor refresh rate). I was really happy when you guys added the higher polygon terrain option, (shift f1 i think it is) and i would like to see more options like that. Perhaps higher polygon plane models or canopy reflections would be cool. Right now I have the second fastest computer in aces (according to the aces high benchmark page  http://www.grandeavenida.com/fps/framerate.cfm?Game=2  )   and want to utilize its power  
Ok now i need to hide , as the guys wth the slow computers flame me    

P.S. I think adding force feedback support is awesome. I may have to get one now  

[AKDejaVu]

I have about a 70% success rate when trying to get all of a P-47's ordinance to hit a CV.

As bad as the flak/ack is, its nowhere near what it was in real life.  For every story someone has about dying from one ping, I've seen 10 that just fly through it for several minutes.  I've seen too many bombers hover over 88mm protected feilds to think these are ruining the game for everyone.

BTW.. there's a damn good reason most fighters stopped escorting bombers over a flak protected target and met them on the other side.

Flak will kill you.  There is some randomness to it.  Get over it.  Simply flying there does not entitle you to anything.

AKDejaVu