Buff-Guns :((

[Wulfmen]

This Guns from American Buffs are very unrealistic. This toejam MG´s.
Thats not fun, to get killed from 1K range.
This Game is fun but this fu... sh... is not the best.

Is this a bug or Lousy Settings from the Staff???????????

This thinks makes this Game bad

[XNachoX]

simple solution....dont engage buffs  

[This message has been edited by XNachoX (edited 04-12-2001).]

[Dingy]

Better solution...

Engage buffs using realistic tactics.  Fast slashing attacks and not from their straight 6.  If you arent fast or arent higher than the buff, trying to attack straight from behind is a sure kill....for the buff pilot.

This isnt EAW.

-Ding

[Dinger]

Dingy, the last time I tried using realistic tactics was when I shot through two B17s in a G10 at 500+ mph from high 10.  Before I could roll to low 2, I had four pings nad lost half my plane.
It used to be you'd see people attacking buffs (and as a pilot, I'd see them) in historically successful manners (dead 6 is an historically accurate approach, btw), but lately anyone smart enough to do that also knows of its futility, and just stays away.

[brady]

 Dingy has a point, I love those guys who come straight in while I am a Buff, heck I will even slow down so they can close a little faster,than BOOM their dead.
  On the other hand I set and wait to die while I see some guy spending his time to set up to make a good run on me, Just like last night, I was all alone up high in my lanc. a lone 109 appears 10 min's later I was dead, the 109 was hit but no discernable damage who was this hunter of Buff's why dzd of course, he is way good <S> dzd, he knows how to kill a buff, and their are lots of others like him, leave the buff guns alone.
  If u use your head u can kill them with relative impunity, the same goes for ostys.

         

------------------
 

[This message has been edited by brady (edited 04-12-2001).]

[Olgzr3]

Buff guns are modeled just right!!

Buffs are tough to kill for most people,myself included. But as a guy that flys bombers a lot, there are people out there that seem to kill me pretty easily. Could they be the Aces in Aces High?

Olgzr

[This message has been edited by Olgzr3 (edited 04-12-2001).]

[Ozark]

At least your fighting a real human....not some code.

[bowser]

As has been stated several times before, most of the time you cannot set up a proper attack because the bomber is continually turning.  As soon as your in position, they turn their 6 to you. With AH's pinpoint bombing and instant Norden, there is no need to maintain a course for any length of time as in RL.

Also, can anybody dispute the poster's claim that buff guns kill at a MUCH greater distance then a fighter's?

I know the few times I've buffed, the most exciting times were when I was gunning.  Wouldn't it be pretty boring if nobody attacked because of gameplay issues?  That seems to be the way it's headed.

bowser

[Sandman_SBM]

The Norden is the biggest difference. On WB, bombing was much more difficult. Once you lined up, you really couldn't be yankin' and bankin' around...

[Fariz]

It is very unlikely that buff guns will be changed? Why? Because they were MUCH less lethal, and result was hurting for the gameplay. Flying under 30k in buff was a clear suicide.

Yes, it was more realistic. Lone buff has little chance to survive against lone fighter. But it was borring.

Well, I was one of those who was against change in guns strength, when it happened. Now I see that it was very wise decision, which balanced game.

And killing buffs is not difficult, if you will learn how to do it. Check top fighter pilots stats to see, that they killed many time more buffs than were killed by buffs.

Fariz

[Wilbus]

 

Engage buffs using realistic tactics

As dinger stated, dead 6 was very often used by LW and it worked well, didn't loose many planes too it.
Sturmgruppe (190 A8/R8 equiped with 2x20mm and 2x30mm) moved in in a close V formation form dead 6 without avoiding the enemy buff fire. They didn't loose 1 or 2 planes TOP and sometimes tehy didn't loose any at all.
When they were at 100-200 yards they opened up with fire (each 190 had different buffs, not 2x190's on 1xbuff). With the kind of armement it was clear kill to the 190.
These attacks were hard to perform cause of Allied Fighters so the 190's had to have cover, usualy by 109's.

Try this in AH, let's say 9x190 A8's moving in slow behind 9 B17 (190's were of course much more outnumbered in R/L) and ALL 190's will be dead before they can even reach a distance of 200 yards.

When it comes to other, safer R/L attacks, they don't allways work either.
Last night I came in on a B17 from 2 OC, hit him with 3x30mm but lost most of my plane, my speed was over 450Mph.

Another well used, good but difficult attack was the Head on (12 OC) attack.
It gave the pilots only a few seconds to aim, fire and avoid a colission.
The fighters came in from 12 OC in at an angle of 10 degrees above the Bomber, aimed for the cockpit.

Have tried this in AH too, you often get shot down.

Much of this is because of the icons but much of it is because the Buff guns are WAY overmodelled.

Like someone said in the MA a while ago "I'm gonna love to see the Me262 get shot down in a HO attack on a B17".

Now, how realistic is that?

I have notes written by Sturmgruppe pilots if you want a confirmation of what I have said, just ask me to post it.

   

------------------
Rasmus "Wilbus" Mattsson
III/JG5 Eismeer

[This message has been edited by Wilbus (edited 04-12-2001).]

[Hokum79]

Rendering realistic mounted MG would really change this game far too much, developers should add wind,  because wind has much more impact on them that on fighters. And moreover you should add fear. Yes, when you see a bunch of Fw-190 coming after your 17, you are not as cool-minded as when you are in your seat, carefully watching the distance decrease and waiting for the best moment to open fire. We could also add the fact that crew is in a big leather coat, making moves more difficult.
 IMHO, this is perfect for the moment. Both the fighter and the bomber have a chance to survive.

------------------


[This message has been edited by Hokum79 (edited 04-12-2001).]

[Dingy]

 

Originally posted by Dinger:
Dingy, the last time I tried using realistic tactics was when I shot through two B17s in a G10 at 500+ mph from high 10.  Before I could roll to low 2, I had four pings nad lost half my plane.
It used to be you'd see people attacking buffs (and as a pilot, I'd see them) in historically successful manners (dead 6 is an historically accurate approach, btw), but lately anyone smart enough to do that also knows of its futility, and just stays away.

Buffs arent too be taken lightly.  But I've taken plenty of Lancs and B17s down with the p51 and when I have the ability to set up a good approach, Ive killed lots more than have killed me.  The only time Ive died is when I get impatient or engage a strato buff at 30K+ which doesnt give me the leeway to set up a good shot.

Good shooting helps too if you are able to concentrate your shots on a wing.

-Ding

[bloom25]

I find myself agreeing with both sides when it comes to bomber guns.  On the one hand, I do enjoy flying bombers.  On the other hand, they can be a real pain to kill.

When I'm in a b26 I usually feel reasonably sure that I will kill at least 2 fighters before I'm shot down.  To me this is probably too easy.

When I'm attacking a bomber if I have the time to set up an attack properly, knowing before hand that I'm intercepting a bomber, I can usually shoot them down without a problem.  On the other hand though, if I just try attacking a bomber in a f4u1d (no cannons) it's basically useless.  A tbm or ju88 are pretty easy to kill, I'll attack them in any fighter.  A b17 or b26 can be tricky.  A lancaster can absorb nearly all the bullets in the f4u1d's clip and only lose an engine or two.

What I'd like to see is this:

1. Add gun vibration effect for bomber gunners.  (Non turreted guns should have a greater shake to them.)

2.  Reduce the number of tracer rounds fired.  (This would make deflection shots harder, but not affect the ability to kill fighters making "stupid" attacks.)

I wouldn't change anything else.



------------------
bloom25
-MAW-
(Formerly of the)
THUNDERBIRDS

[Dinger]

Just bust down the lethality to fighter levels, and make sure the bullet radius is realistic.  You'll find that stupidity is still rewarded with death, but that slashing attacks actually work.
Honestly, I like flying buffs too -- nothing's better than a 6-kill sortie in a b26; but this is ridiculous.