Black Sea Frame 3 AAR

[Nifty]

All I'm gonna say is my squad took out the pad.  I didn't even believe my squaddie when he said he did it.  It wasn't until after the Ch 1 commotion that it dawned on me what had possibly happened (and what actually did happen.)  I PMed sling about it, and he confirmed it from the logs.

I wouldn't blame Sling for it.  He didn't make the terrain, and he wasn't informed of the refuel pad being vulnerable.

[Vulcan]

my 2 cents worth about the A47 incident.

We had hit A3, bagged some 109s, rtb'd to A8. Rip ordered us (me, Acid, Swat222) back to A3 when reports came in of the fight over A18. I suggested we vector to intercept in case the LW rtb'd to 47. We did just that. Half way between A18 and A47 we spot a huge flight of aircraft. I cried for Stalin and we gave chase. As we were giving chase the escort dropped towards 47, it was clear we hadn't been spoted.

Rearm pads or not you LW guys were screwed. I bagged one Ju88 behind the main bunch but got torn up by another so was unable to keep on going.

But, from my lovely silk view I could clearly see the LW on finals into A47 and immediately ordered Acid and Swat222 to go fuel wep and hit you guys OTR.

IMHO rearm pads or not you would've been screwed. Its not like we were 10 mins behind you. You had a couple of Yaks with 37mm coming in right behind you fast and furious...

[JoeCrip]

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[JoeCrip]

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[ghostdancer]

Vulcan hate to disagree with you but the guys at A47 were not screwed even if there were rearms pads in place. What you caught / spotted was the tail end of 4 squads landing there .. Nightmares VMF-101, Arabian Knights, JG51 and part of the 412th. If what you saw were 190s with JU88s I think you caught part of the 412th and JG51st on their way back.

In the case of the Nightmares and the Arabian Knights we were on the ground looking for the rearm pad for like 6 minutes at least and possibly more. If the rearm pad was there there would have probably been at least 5 - 10 190s refueled and climbing for at least 5 minutes 30 seconds (possibly longer) before you guys all came in.

Now I still believe that the several planes would have been nailed on the ground by fast incoming Russian planes, just like what happened. But it could not have been as bad as it was. Can't really tell but can only conjecture but I think what would have happened is the 3 La5Ns came in and there had been 10 rearmed 190s up.

So saying we would have been screwed anyway even if the pads were there .. well yes and no. Nightmares and Arabian Knights would have been the no (planes refueled and up 5 Nightmares and ?5-7? Arabian Knights). JG51 and 412th would have been the yes, since you caught them low of fuel trying to land.

It would have been interesting with the Russians having an alt advantage over a larger numbers of lower 190s.

Oh, I just so everyone knows I am not whining about the situation at the rearm pads. It happened and I have no real problem with and don't blame the CM or anyone. I am just saying that I don't believe the axis would have been automatically screwed no matter what at A47.

As for the CMs and C in C .. how the heck would they know that it was even possible to destroy the rearm pads? They can't check everybase and every structure on the map and its not there job to do so. The CMs just load the scenario tables to setup the arena and C in C creates the plan for his side. Neither really have the time to go and test every possible thing and variable on the map. I mean there can be a bug at one base and not on another. It is very possible that only the rearm pad at A47 has a flaw in it that allows it to be destroyed. Only way to find out is for somebody to go try to destroy the rearm pad at another base. And if you take it to its logical end .. they would have to test all bases. This is not there job or the C in C job.

Now I would say that somewhere I read that maybe a group of map testers need to be create. Who a map can be submitted too and then they would have all the time they need to test the map and try to find bugs and document strange things. They would do this before the map was put in general use. And you can even have it so that the map can't go into general use until they finish testing and sign off on it.

Okay thats my two cents.

[JaCkNiFe]

LOL man that was great strafing you guys OTR for letting us:) but i felt bad when i found out u couldnt do much about it... no Rearm pads... :\ but it was still fun i think i got like 5 or 6 OTR

[daddog]

Great AAR's! Really enjoyed them!

Now for the unpleasent business.

And the fact that you didn't know that the rearm pads were destructible amazes me, you are a CM after all. You should have let us re up for a fault on your part.

Come on sling you're a CM after all. You should know all this. Your not "just" a player, you're a CM! Jeeze!

Soviet, Joe, I am really sorry we are such screw up's. It is just real tough to get good hired help these day's. I am just glad you did not call HTC and tell them what a corrupt and moronic group we are. He might have pulled the plug on us.

Tell you what I am going to do. Since the TOD's are so stressful I think it is a good idea you both to take a month off. After that, if you think you can put up with us you can send me an e-mail and we will talk about it. Besides the next TOD is another one of those terrains the CM's made. You don't want to take part in that.

[snafu]

Perhaps Joe & soviet could run there own scenario. I would love to take part in what would be such a flawless event

TTFN
snafu

[Wotan]

I like the idea that the rearm pads can be destroyed....

but is the a terrain design or can the cms set what structures are "killable" (ie..towers etc.........?)

Any was this the last frame or will we redo the 2nd frame?

[JoeCrip]

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[vmfRazor]

Sling don't back down. I was still in the room motoring my T34 back home and reading the chat on ch1. I musta left before the boot out of those guys. But I kept thinking to myself "Why don't he just boot these guys!" After listening to all the cries of the mapmaker being a moron and stuff I was getting fed up with it. Sundog is a squaddie m8 of mine and I know he doesn't get to fly that much he's always working on the terrains and trying to make them better and better.

I've never been a CM or a map designer or anything like that, but I was a football official for 5 years for high school and below. Very similarly this is a thankless job that can only take a couple aholes to ruin the whole experience for you.  Sure I got paid to officiate but it barely covered the cost of the equipment I bought every year to be able to do the job. And everytime one of those jerk coaches jumps up in you're face and berates you for making a tough call they don't agree with, makes you Question WHY THE HELL AM I PUTTING UP WITH THIS !!!??? All I had to do to answer that question was to turn around and look at the kids on the feild and how happy they are just to get to play. And the realisation that without you these kids wouldn't get to play this game, and the whole thing comes back into focus. When just one of those kids over hundreds of games, comes up to you after the game and says "Thanks for the good time" it makes it all worth it.

The same holds true here. Without guys like Sling, Daddog, Sundog, Exile,and any other CM, Mapmaker, or anybody at all even remotely involved in putting an event together. US OVERGROWN KIDS WOULD NEVER GET TO HAVE FUN IN THESE GREAT EVENTS! Think of us when the times get rough to do you're job.  Think of us, the countless numbers who accept the good with the bad and try not to squeak and moan, but fly and have fun. And I know I've never said it enough but Thanks to all involved A big goes out to all. Even a to JoeCrip and Soviet. Everybody deserves one after a fun time like this.

RazorDD

[JoeCrip]

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[Dinger]

persuasive Joe.  If we accept your assertion, the way you argue it proves beyond a doubt that you are a member of the AH community.

[JoeCrip]

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[vmfRazor]

I was there Joe. I seen it more than once from more than you. And where did I say JoeCrip said it repetedly. The only time I even mentioned you was to you afterward. And Besides the, Lemme use you're words, THE F****** post was to Sling and all the other CM's. I saw many many deragatory statements m8 I don't remeber from who exactly but I was reading the chat buffer cause I was driving the tank. If I had filmed it myself then maybe I might go back through the film and pick out the statements but I didn't and besides this wasn't about any 1 F****** person saying S***. This was in general to all the CM's about all the past problems with all the events. Never was this a personal finger pointing post at you or anybosy maybe I shoulda started another thread to say this, but oh well I am human and I made a mistake. Maybe my first mistake was to say anything at all to somebody like you at all Joe.

RazorDD