Black Sea Frame 3 AAR

[Raubvogel]

That's what I trying to bring up in that other post daddog. Everyone who exited on A47 got a ditch, and it counted as a lost plane. That definitely skewed the numbers.

[10Bears]

we're reading

[Blue Mako]

Originally posted by Raubvogel
That's what I trying to bring up in that other post daddog. Everyone who exited on A47 got a ditch, and it counted as a lost plane. That definitely skewed the numbers.

It was noted somewhere a while back that you could not exit on a dirt rwy, you needed to exit on a rearm pad to get a landed safely msg.  Obviously this was not possible at 47.

[ghostdancer]

Ah, so that is what happened .. we were not sure that it would count as a ditch or not. Nightmares had Ramesis, Drex, MrKil and KiDFury land there and all were counted as ditches.

Now earlier in the evening (around 9 pm EST) I came into the SEA to record pre-flight info for the squad (kills and assists) so that I could figure out kills and assists later after the even and not wait for the posted scores. I also spawn an fw190-A5 at A57 to modify my views. When I got out of the plane .. I had killed the engine so no movement .. it said I had ditched.

So its possible that other bases outside of A47 had this bug. It is also possible that all the small fields (grass strip bases) had this bug. But can't really tell without somebody going to do some testing .. go spawn at a field and get out and see what it says.

[Wotan]

I remember reading in the post that sundog made when the terrain was updated saying at some fields u needed to either exit in the hanger or the rearm pad dont remember if he said anyhting about rearm pads being "destroyable".

Again I ask can the cms determin what is "destroyable" (ie towers etc.) or is it the result of the map designers?
Any answers..........

Also is this TOD over or will we do a "make-up" frame?

[sling322]

We can detonate just about any structure on a field using the CM tools Wotan, but as far as how that relates to whether or not the structure can be damaged by ordnance, I just dont know.  I assume it is tied to the map maker and how he designs a terrain simply because of the fact that you cannot kill re-arm pads in the MA terrains.  Hopefully Sundog or one of the other map gurus will step forward and answer on this one.

[JaCkNiFe]

What about me and Acid strafing those on the feild?

[Kratzer]

You should definitely point that out about 6 more times, until you are good and sure that nobody is listening to you.

[Sundog]

Hey guys,
Just to clear up the hot pad questions.

1) All the Grass airfields are just modified 'snow' tiles, therefore, the runway is just a painting on the ground. To make a succesful landing, you must be on a hotpad.

2) When setting the hotpads in the terrain editor, you do just that, make the object a 'hotpad'. I didn't realize they would be destroyable. The hotpads on the standard airfields aren't destroyable due to the way HTC builds the airfield object.

3) I tried using the 'snow tile' (Nice work there Squirrel) to make them blend in well with the terrain. In the future, I will not be using this method due to the problems that occured. I have other grass airfield designs using HTC objects that will allow you to receive a successful landing regardless of destroyed hotpads. In fact, I probably won't put hotpads on them since they can be destroyed.

I test these as much as I can, however, some problems are unforseen. If you guys notice any other anamolies, please let me know. Thanks,

[daddog]

miss post

[fd ski]

As an ex-terrain team leader, and designer of few scenario's in my time, to soviet and joe guy:

you fellows have no idea, not a slightest clue as to what it takes to make a terrain, test one, or design and run scenario.

Just to give you an example, terrain will usually have in the range of couple thousands of objects, each one of those will have at least 20 different properties.
So we're looking at 40000 values that would need to be looked at in one way or the other.

If you two are volunteering your time to test terrains, i'm sure sundog will be glad to talk to you.
Fact is, that noone who has a job or family, has time to run testing enough to provide "flawless" terrain. Such is life.
So your choice is to bite the bullet and deal with it, or start flying in main arena terrains and pretend that it is indeed russia. ( and you'll find that some of the MA terrains have old bugs in them too )

As for your behaviour in arena, well, i think daddog was leniant....

[Phantom4]

The air was nippy but the sun was bright even this early. High visibility was bad for us and good for the Germans.  Pre-flight was uneventful, some small oil leaks but the birds seemed in great condition. First wave (a section of four IL2's) lifted off with Swoop as lead.  They proceeded at about 100'agl with 2 LA5 as high escort.  Within a couple of minutes they disappeared over the horizon.  2nd wave With Ripsnort as lead (another section of four IL2's) taxied onto the runway and began to warm-up engines.  You could feel the tension building, banter was light and full of bravado but you could feel the underlying edginess.  Everyone knew this was a virtual suicide mission.  Enemy air cover was thick and their planes were all battle-tested veterans.  This was not going to be a walk in the park.

 ROLL! Finally the command came, the waiting was over.  Throttles advanced to full and the heavy laden IL2's began lumbering down the runway slowing gaining speed. After an eternity the wheels finally left the ground, we were airborne.  We proceeded on a slightly northern tack just above the treetops.  The very low level flying was a blessing because it kept your mind occupied dodging obstacles and didn't leave you time to think about the upcoming battle.  Fortune seemed to smile on us as neither flight was detected on the run in.  However our luck soon ran out.  As 1st flight neared target, they spotted numerous enemy 109's circling the base.  The radio chatter began at a furious pace.  It was evident that Swoop's group was under heavy attack.  However, they still managed to hit the base hard and takeout the AAA.  Swoop the showing he's dedication and love of mother Russia began to attack the fighters and drag them away from the base.  Showing no regard for his own safety he managed to lure the entire cap away from the base off to the northwest.

  Rip orders to turn south and on to the target from nearly due east.  As we caught sight of the base we immediatel popped up and climbed for all the altitude we could muster.  I third in line as the attack began.  The two in front of me hit the hangers hard.  I nosed over, large bombs on the fuel dump. Leveling slightly, I dropped the internal boms down the runway.  Nosing down again, selector to rockets, I unloaded all of them into the ammo dumps.  Secondary explosions were everywhere the target was a smoking mess. Success! But, our joy was short lived.  We had caught the attention of the fighter cap and they were all over us.  Radio was nearly unintelligible. "Bandits 5 oclock high! Multiple bandits my 6 oclock!! I'm hit, I'M HIT" I saw Rip hit and smoking I think he is down. I pull up hard on the far side into a stall and wingover back towards the base.  It looks destroyed.  Keeping the nose down, I fight to gain speed. Then from the corner of my eye, a 109!! passing fast across my nose.  I thumb down on the canons, HIT HIM! A hit right in the engine, he is smoking heavily and is quickly out of sight (I found out later, it was a comfirmed kill). Continuing down and accelerating hard i pulled out about 10' above the deck and streaked across the base headed for home.  The seconds slowed ticked by, while I waited for tracers to flash my impending death. 5, 10, 15, 20, 30, 45... I might make it. Oh no , 109 6 oclack high closing fast. Obviously, he has picked me for his next victum. Break right! Tracers whis by to the left. Rudder hard left! Tracers to the right! He is fight on me. I can see his smile.  The rear gunner lets loose, hits all along is wing and canopy. White smoke. He pulls up and breaks right. I roll left and then level out, running as fast as I can. He has broke off, friendly fighters streak by. No wonder. Guess he didn't like the fight when he was on the small end.  No more bandits in view, on the radio ,"Rip, Sundog report! Swoop!, Swoop! ...." Silence! It looks as if I am the only survivor.  I continue home, completely unharmed, God has smiled on me.

The minutes tick by, and I am nearing home.  I spot an enemy depot. No ordinance, but I have a lot of ammo.  I line up on the AAA and take out two on the fisrt pass. Jinking left, right, up, all over, I extend and turn back. I take out the last AAA and methodically strafe the depot until all ammo is expended.  RTB. Thank god it is just a few miles away.  There is the runway, a nice landing, coast to a stop at the ammo shed.  The ground begans to quickly rearm and refuel my aircraft. I crawl out of the cockpit and stand on the wing. My legs are stiff and I have to piss.  I start to climb down by the ground crew lead yells for my to stand-by new orders are on their way. So , i just relieve myself over the wing. One of the ground crew hands we a cup of coffee.  It seems like the best cup I have ever had.  

Here are my orders, another depot has been spotted near our original, I have been ordered to attack it.  This is insane - fly across hundred mile of enemy territory and singlehangedly attack a large depot. Well, orders are orders and I know they wouldn't make this assignment unless it were very important. Up again and heading to target.  Ingress is uneventful, i never see an enemy fighter.  Seems as fortune is still on my side.  Nearing target, several bogies appear, 4 ocloak high, angels 12 or higher.  Must be bandits, wait ..., they seem a little large for 109's - it's a flight of IL2's.  The FDB's, I think. Fatty has lead. I join with them about 5 miles from target.  It is a huge depot. AAA first then targets of oportunity. Bombs then rockets then guns, pass after pass, finally I am out of ammo and the depot is destroyed.  Oh oh, fuel is critical, RTB immediately. I start a shallow climb and throttle back to about 2/3. Man this is going to be tight. The climb is costing too much fuel, level at about 4k and hope for best. About 10 miles out, fuel gauge is showing empty and then engine quits. Out of fuel.  Nose over to shallow dive trying for maximum coast. After a couple of minutes it is obvious I am not going to make it, I am low just a couple hundred feet and over enemy depot(D75. I keep my nose in the direction of my base but i am dropping fast, I can see the runway but by now I am under 100.  I can see dust behind me, I've been spotted and they know I am going to crash. Unable to keep her in the air, I settle down and roll to a stop. A german truck pull along before I can exit the cockpit.  My luck has run out, looks like I will spend the rest of the war in a prison camp.

Phantom

[Durr]

I took off with the 308th, flying wingman for Hazed.  We headed into enemy territorry looking for trouble.   After repeated turns to intercept bandits that turned out to actually be friendlies we dropped in at a friendly field to rearm/refuel.  


  Upon takeoff, we headed for a nearby enemy target on a ground attack mission.  The acks were all down when we arrived, so we rolled in and had a field day flattening the place.  When we left there was nothing standing and we still had about 100 rounds cannon apiece in our La-5s.  

  Upon climbing out, I suddenly lost joystick control, which happens to me sometimes.  There is no cure for it but to reset the computer, since Windows wont even recognize a joystick as being present of plugged in.  Usually I just logoff, and reboot and come back, but of course in a TOD, thats not an option.  So I was left with the option of flying back to friendly territorry using trim tabs, and either bailing out there, or trying to land using trim.  I headed for the nearest Allied base, and started trying to line up for a trim only landing.  My throttle control comes from joystick also, so my only power inputs available was from engine on/off.  I shut the engine down about five miles out and started to glide in.  


  On the first pass, I was much to fast, crossing the threshold at well over 200 mph.  I started the engine, trimmed like a madman trying to counter the sudden torque, and slowly got turned around to return to the original initial point.  This time I shut the engine down a little further back.  In the time it took to do all this, the rest of the 308th had gone to another enemy base, shot down some Ju-88s, and returned to the base where I was trying to land.  They did some precision flybys on the field and then landed in formation on a crossing runway just as I came in on short final.  I was still a little fast, crossing the threshold at about 190 and slightly right of the runway.  I set trim full nose up and dropped the gear, praying that the drag would slow the plane before the gear could be damaged.  Even with full aft trim, the La-5 was perilously nose lo on touchdown.  First touchdown was about even with the first rearm pad at about 150 mph.  I bounced about 4 times and finally settled roughly on the mains at about 110 mph.  I slowly applied as much brakes as I thought I could get away with and not nose over.  Finally I came to rest about 1/2 mile past the end of the runway.


  Now it suddenly occured to me that I would still get a ditch unless I could return my fighter to the runway before exiting.  I blipped the engine quickly a few times to get moving and used differential braking to turn.  Alas, my poor landing gear had taken all the abuse that they were going to, and the right main gear collapsed under me.  Still, I'm sure the ground crew will have my bird back up and running in no time.