It's just Plane wierd.....

[Widewing]

Over the weekend, I ventured into that maniacal place called the Main Arena for the first time.

I discovered a few things that struck me as, well, wierd.

Flying an N1K2, I made a head-on run at an La-7. We both opened fire at about 1k and neither of us flinched. My last view was of the Lavochkin's engine just feet ahead, when there was the expected explosion, followed by the message, "you have been killed" (no toejam Sherlock). This is where it gets wierd. It appears that the La-7 survived and the pilot got credit for a victory. Now, it's possible to have blown up my aircraft, but at a distance of just a few feet, it is not possible to avoid the wreckage, especially when the closing speed was near 700 mph.
My opinion is that the wreckage should not vaporize, and should still be modeled as a solid mass. Without a doubt, that big engine is still intact and it will do major damage should you run into it. Anyone experience this before?


Second wierdness:

What is that Death Ray installed in the tail of the B-26? There is one hell of a lot more power in those two .50s than would be found in the real world. Compare the AH modeling with that in EAW.


Another suggestion: Padlock, I never liked it in other sims and I don't like it here. I think it odd that you can find yourself looking at the cockpit floor, should the padlocked enemy end up below your belly. Again, EAW has a padlock feature, but they also provide a far more useful (and in my opinion, accurate) method. Once you select a target, and it moves from you forward field of view, an icon in the form of a X is placed on the edge of the viewing screen, which shows you the relative relationship of the enemy to your plane. For me ( and many others I've spoken with) it provides a really useful aid to situational awareness. Essentially, it returns to you the peripheral vison that you would otherwise have lost because the forward view is much like wearing blinders. That X tells if the enemy is to the right or left, above or below or even behind you. This requires only a quick peek to determine its orientation relative to you. Because this works so well, I never bother padlocking. Perhaps, HTC might want to look at how this works in EAW and consider employing a similar method.

One last point: It was rare that an aircraft simply exploded when hit in the fuel tanks, even for aircraft without self-sealing fuel tanks. AH does not model fire, and far, far too many aircraft are exploding into fairy dust. Sure, an explosion leaves no doubt as to the destruction of an aircraft. However, so would a fire. Moreover, the burning aircraft would still be a hazard to be avoided. As it stands now, you can fly right through the blast of an exploding aircraft with no ill effect. Well, I have personally seen what a Seagull can do to an aircraft, yet flying through wreckage in AH does nothing. That's a point of realism that needs attention.

My regards,

Widewing

[Kweassa]

1. you probably died from collision on your FE.

 2. the buff guns, according to HTC, are no more or less powerful than
     a 'usual' .50...    But.. all guns within firing angle shoot at a single
     point with accuracy that makes laser-guided rifles pale. In the worst
     case scenario, u face 5x .50 guns when approaching a buff..  more
     powerful than a P-51B. That's the secret of the 'Ackstar'

 3. I dunno about this one. It's more of a preference issue.. I think the
     icons already are crutches enough. And I'm not sure how good
     human peripheral vision is.. yes I can notice even the slightest
     move when someone is near my periphery  - maybe if he's in my
     room... but I'm not sure if I can notice a 300mph plane at the
     peripheral boundary of my vision at 2000~3000 yard distance,
     when I am concentrating on a single plane in front of me.. 700 yards

 4. There is fire in AH. It's just rare to see a plane hit so bad as to
     catch fire and still fly on. I'm not sure how AH fires are started,
     but experience suggests damage near fuel tanks are connected
     with fires - as it would in real life. There were a number of occasions
     - not often, though - where I was hit, checked damage and saw
     damage to fuel tanks only.. but when I looked around, smoke and
     fire was eating away my fuselage.

     This also is more of a damage model issue. In IL-2, most of the times
     you see a plane going down you see him smoking bad, and going
     down in a shallow -but-ever-steepening , irecoverable fall. The way
     AH models the damage is 'all or nothing'. When many areas reach full
     damage, the plane just explodes before falling. Yes, to a certain point
     I agree we see too many explosions. Perhaps this would be changed
     when AH delivers more sophisticated damage modelling.. where you'd
     be able to shoot down something without breaking the wing ot explodin
     g it.

[Karnak]

Point the first:  Lag, and differences create all sorts of wierdness like this.  There are many threads discussing lag and its effects and how it should be dealt with in the Gameplay forum.


Point the second: EAW had all of the American bombers equipped with 30 cal machine guns that had extremely low rates of fire.  I used editors on that game to try to make it more realistic and if I set it to have .50 cals with the correct rate of fire, it would simply annilate the German aircraft.

There have been many discussion on how bomber guns are modeled in AH, and how best to destroy bombers.  One thing that is in complete agreement is that attacking from dead 6 is a great way to get back to the tower.  I prefer nearly vertical dives from 5,000-6,000ft above the bomber, focusing my fire on one wing.

Point the third: I, and many others, find that padlock hinders SA.  I reccomend that you use snap views.

Point the fourth: When an enemy aircraft explodes it is not indicative of a fuel explosion, but rather a pilot kill.  AH does not track wreckage after the pilot is gone.  That is why the plane disappears when a pilot bails out.  When you get a pilot kill there is no pilot to generate a chute icon and the plane is simply removed in an explosion animation.

[eddiek]

Welcome to the WILD WACKY WEIRD world we call Aces High, Widewing!  

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Karnak
Point the first: Lag, and differences create all sorts of wierdness like this.  There are many threads discussing lag and its effects and how it should be dealt with in the Gameplay forum.

Thanks, I'll have a look.

Point the second: EAW had all of the American bombers equipped with 30 cal machine guns that had extremely low rates of fire.  I used editors on that game to try to make it more realistic and if I set it to have .50 cals with the correct rate of fire, it would simply annilate the German aircraft.

Okay, but there is that ever present caveat; real world occurance.
Despite the huge claims of German fighters shot down by the gunners of heavy bombers, seldom did actual kills ever approach 10% of claims. Aside from the obvious problem of every gunner who hammered away at the German, claiming the kill, those gunners sprayed most of their ammunition into empty space. In simple terms, innaccuracy was the rule rather than the exception. Typically, gunners had to deal with the physics of hitting one moving object while in another. Adding to their problem was the constant movement of the platform. Only by shear weight of numbers did the gunners kill as many German fighters as they did. My limited experience with AH indicates far greater lethality than actually existed.

There have been many discussion on how bomber guns are modeled in AH, and how best to destroy bombers.  One thing that is in complete agreement is that attacking from dead 6 is a great way to get back to the tower.  I prefer nearly vertical dives from 5,000-6,000ft above the bomber, focusing my fire on one wing.

Point the third: I, and many others, find that padlock hinders SA.  I reccomend that you use snap views.

Point the fourth: When an enemy aircraft explodes it is not indicative of a fuel explosion, but rather a pilot kill.  AH does not track wreckage after the pilot is gone.  That is why the plane disappears when a pilot bails out.  When you get a pilot kill there is no pilot to generate a chute icon and the plane is simply removed in an explosion animation.

I have found the underside of the Lanc to be especially vunerable.

As to wreckage from blow-ups: I understand the logic of doing it the way it's being done now. However, the simple fact that an aircraft may detonate does not eliminate the fact that there is still several tons of metal out there, and flying through the wreckage should result in damage.

By the way, does a disco result in the loss of all data related to the sortie?

My regards,

Widewing

[MrLars]

Widewing quote:

Okay, but there is that ever present caveat; real world occurance.
                            Despite the huge claims of German fighters shot down by the gunners of heavy bombers, seldom did actual
                            kills ever approach 10% of claims. Aside from the obvious problem of every gunner who hammered away at
                            the German, claiming the kill, those gunners sprayed most of their ammunition into empty space. In simple
                            terms, innaccuracy was the rule rather than the exception. Typically, gunners had to deal with the physics
                            of hitting one moving object while in another. Adding to their problem was the constant movement of the
                            platform. Only by shear weight of numbers did the gunners kill as many German fighters as they did. My
                            limited experience with AH indicates far greater lethality than actually existed.

Welcome to the land of "Gameplay Concessions" where real life physics are nonexistant

I'd like to just once see a gunner getting tossed out of a maneuvering B17....some G forces on the gunners of a dogbuff is what is needed. IMO as always

[airspro]

What is that Death Ray installed in the tail of the B-26? There is one hell of a lot more power in those two .50s than would be found in the real world. Compare the AH modeling with that in EAW.

Widewing : I have enjoyed your posts .

I am rereading "The Cactus Air Force" by Thomas G. Miller  Jr. in paper back , Bantam editon / June 1981 .

Look to page 75 , were it tells about John Smith's tatic's "overhead run" .

I learned this in AH "first" before rereading it here in this book .

Works in AH , worked WW2 .

[Tac]

Widewing! Its great to see you play AH ... bite the hook, bite the hook!!


1) Lag definetely. I have in many, many occassions gotten killed because I hit part of my victim's airframe. Try flying a 262, its especially true in that plane. I think the issue here is your connect vs the other guy's connect. If both are good, you will ram into his parts. If your FE says that you miss the wreckage because his FE didnt tell your FE that his wing just flew through your plane then your FE wont realize you hit his wreckage. Thus, no damage.

I hate temporal mechanics!

2) Buff guns in AH are "beefed up" in range because of lag issues.. Before a fighter could close in to d500 and blast a buff down because the buff might see the con at d900 and not fire. Giving the buffs range up to d1.8 gives the buff gunner a better chance at not being killed by lagged fighters.

HOWEVER, I think HTC also gave those bullets increased kinetic punch . A d1.2 hit will hurt you as much as a fighter's d400 shot will. Something I consider VERY unfair. Especially when the buff guy has good connect, and you have good connect and you find yourself torn apart by someone firing from extreme range.

Also, all possible guns in the buff are firing at you. So the tail gun's 2 .50's are actually the tail, ball and top turret and quiete possible the waist gunners too (search the pictures forum, the bug was posted showing the ball and top turret guns firing through the fuselage). This issue is being addressed with the new buff things HTC is doing next version. I can only hope.

"By the way, does a disco result in the loss of all data related to the sortie?"

I think the server keeps tracks of the kills u had before you discoed.. it will track your disco ..as a disco. You will not get any perk points from a sortie that you discoe'd. Perk planes that have not been pinged, and you disco, means you lose only half the perks of the plane's cost instead of the full price. (aka, disco in 262 =100 perks lost. 262 costs 200 perks to get).


Come fly knits! Let usknow your arena handle

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Tac
Widewing! Its great to see you play AH ... bite the hook, bite the hook!!

(snip)

Come fly knits! Let usknow your arena handle

Well, I'll tell you, the first few times I logged on in the Main Arena, I found myself getting the hook plenty. First off, my main purpose was to try to stay out of trouble while getting a little experience in that environment. As I'm sure you know, trouble has a way of finding you no matter how careful you are to stay out of the way.

I was staying high, flying fast and avoiding crowds. However, it never fails, no matter how high you climb, there's always some other genius to be found above you. Worse, a long climbout means that you're flying damn slow for a long time. A perfect bounce for pony drivers. All you can do is turn into the attacks while trying to trade altitude for airspeed. This is usually successful if you have only one guy after your ass. However, if there's two or more.... Well, then you're in "deep bandini".  

My first 18 or so sorties showed a net gain of two assists, at the cost of 7 deaths.

I found out some interesting things, such as the La-7 cannot out-turn a C.202. I reefed into a tight lufberry, with the stall horn making a bloody racket, and that damn Macchi still turned a smaller circle. As he began to pull lead, I had to bust out and try to evade. Nope, no such luck, he was too close and the Lavochkin didn't have the suds to pull away.

I now understand why I had so much trouble during my first two days of flying. The reason was simple: I kept switching planes, trying to pick the best one for the anticipated fight. Yet, it always seemed that when I got to the fight, things were not as I expected. Just like the idiot who always shows up at the dinner wearing the wrong suit.

So, I switched sides from Bishops to Rooks, and tried out the Spitfire Mk.IX. It took a few sorties to learn the strengths and weaknesses, during the course of which I was whacked once more (for my 7th trip to the morgue). However, tonight I stayed with the Spit and began to get confortable, managing 7 kills and 5 assists for just 4 deaths, two of those coming right after pulling up the gear and on final approach, all but out of gas (both to Typhoons stooging around the airfield). It's like operating out of a hot LZ. The other two were the result of trying to defend against what seemed like every fighter the Knights had. No chance to get away, so all one can do is make them work real hard for the eventual victory, and do as much damage as possible.

Anyway, I use Widewing as my handle. I saw Ammo tonight, I pulled up off of his left wing in a combat spread formation. We ran across a lone Fw 190, which passed by nose to nose slightly below and to our left. Ammo broke down to the left, and I broke up to the left. The 190 headed down, so Ammo got to him before I could try a deflection shot from above. That guy never had a chance, Ammo was on him in an instant. I expected that he would break up and into us, which is why I went high. However, he tried to run from Ammo's Jug which had the advantage of height, and Ammo split-essed right onto his backside.

I believe that this is gonna be a lot of fun. I'll keep an eye out for you (and the others who frequent this BBS).

My regards,

Widewing

[Seeker]

Widewing

You seem to have disabled both Email and private messaging in your profile. How about turning one or the other back on?

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Seeker
Widewing

You seem to have disabled both Email and private messaging in your profile. How about turning one or the other back on?

Private messaging was/is turned on. However, when I try to read a message, I get a note saying that "your administrator has disabled private messages." So, until I figure out what the heck is going on, I turned on e-mail.

My regards,

Widewing

[Ripsnort]

You attacked a buff from dead 6 O'clk? (Snork!)

[Widewing]

Originally posted by Widewing


Private messaging was/is turned on. However, when I try to read a message, I get a note saying that "your administrator has disabled private messages." So, until I figure out what the heck is going on, I turned on e-mail.

My regards,

Widewing

Okay, here's what's happening: HTC has disabled the private messages for a short time. Here's there e-mail response:

"Since we have updated to the new board this feature has been disabled altogether for everyone on a temporary basis. When this feature becomes avalable we will let you know."

So, should anyone wish to contact me, use e-mail.

My best,

Widewing

[K West]

Anyway, I use Widewing as my handle. I saw Ammo tonight, I pulled up off of his left wing in a combat spread formation. We ran across a lone Fw 190, which passed by nose to nose slightly below and to our left. Ammo broke down to the left, and I broke up to the left. The 190 headed down, so Ammo got to him before I could try a deflection shot from above. That guy never had a chance, Ammo was on him in an instant. I expected that he would break up and into us, which is why I went high. However, he tried to run from Ammo's Jug which had the advantage of height, and Ammo split-essed right onto his backside.

 Yeah! That AMMO guy always was a kill stealer.  Best bet is to give him a good does of 'check 6!'  warnings.  

I believe that this is gonna be a lot of fun. I'll keep an eye out for you (and the others who frequent this BBS). My regards, Widewing

 That's wonderful!  If I can ever be of any help please let me know!

 Westy

[GRUNHERZ]

My experience regarding this is that AH buff guns and GV 50cals work much different than the "same" caliber/type weapons in fighters. HTC can say that arent "modeled" any different but all of us know they work different in the game. Ive been killed in one instant by ONLY 2 TOP TURRET GUNS of a B17 while making a high angle veritcal pass from above way too many times from very far away for those to be just regular fighter type guns. They arent, they are are made to work different. If HTC hasnt programmed them different then its a bug they should fix.


When HTC introduces the new 4 ship buff formation I think it will be clear that our old bomber guns were overdone. If HTC doesnt change it when we have 4 buff formations, then with all due respect, they will have lost their mind.